Dave Brown Hats

[Mulceber]

AEH, in this article that was posted was the quote above. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Mr. Brown did NOT make the hat in question for Brad Pitt. I can say that because I made it and can privately send invoices to prove it. I won't put something like that over the net for privacy reasons but it is abundantly clear that Mr. Brown is stretching the truth in this case.

Interesting, Art. I didn't know your custom hats had made it into the movies - I just knew you rented out vintage ones. Congratulations on this new clientele. :eusa_clap I have to agree with AEH on one thing though - a lot of the people here are being a little too judgmental. ******. But a lot of the people here seem to be implying that he's *****- like the one who posted the Steve Martin picture. I've never bought a hat from Dave Brown, but I have a relative who has, and the workmanship was pretty good. I've even met the man himself and he seemed nice. Quiet, but nice. He fixed a popped stitch on my AB gratis.

***************. -M

 

[Mr. Lucky]

AEH, in this article that was posted was the quote above. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Mr. Brown did NOT make the hat in question for Brad Pitt. I can say that because I made it and can privately send invoices to prove it. I won't put something like that over the net for privacy reasons but it is abundantly clear that Mr. Brown is stretching the truth in this case.

Again, and not to be contentious here, but, Art, haven't you, in your experience, been one of a number of choices for a costume designer? A number of different styles of the same piece are ordered from different vendors and, ultimately, it's left to the star and the director to choose which will end up in the final product.

Here's what sticks in my craw about this whole thing: Unlike Baron's, which goes out of its way to... stretch the truth and enhance their image and, ultimately, their online sales of reproductions, Mr. Brown seems not too interested in the carriage trade vis a vie selling reproduction hats! He's not marketing the "Dillenger", the "Hanks" or the "Button". To paraphrase Sean Connery in "The Untouchables" - Malone: Who would claim to be that who was not? Hmm?

It just doesn't make much sense.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I'm predicting this thread gets locked [huh]

Not yet, we do need some discussion around here.

I just want it kept less on the attacking side and more on the fact finding.

Make sense?

Your local bartender

 

[Mulceber]

Following your logic you call him a liar and you say you have personally worked with the man.

Yes. Clearly if he says he made a hat that he didn't, he's lying. Hence, he's a liar. I'm just saying that we should avoid mud-slinging. Basically, what Deckard said.

I have not called him a fraud,

If you look at my post, you'll notice that I never said you did. I said it was implied, and by making fun of the person he trained under, it was, whether intentionally or not.

however, I trust your words. I will not enter into any relationship with the hatter. Thank you for your endorsement.

Just to clear things up, I wasn't suggesting that you do so. I was just trying to demonstrate that like anyone he is a multi-dimensional character and shouldn't be the subject of needless mud-slinging. For that matter, I won't be purchasing a hat from him either - I'm quite happy with the likes of Art Fawcett and Steve Delk.

There are too many who are members of The Fedora Lounge whom I am have done business with that have shown themselves to be honest and trustworthy.

Here here! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap -M

 

[gtdean48]

He didn't make Depp hat in Public Enemy, didn't make Pitt hat in Benjamin Button = not going to make any hats for me!!!!

 

[Brent Hutto]

Well I wouldn't buy a hat from someone because he once sold a hat to a movie production. So I suppose I wouldn't not buy a hat from someone because he once didn't sell t hat to a movie production.

But I would rather buy a rather expensive custom hat from someone I know and trust than from someone I don't know and don't trust.

So I guess it's like the song that says "If his phone still ain't ringing then it still ain't me".

 

[indycop]

Has anyone contacted Optimo about this?

 

[Forgotten Man]

is the ribbon on backwards or is the coat buttoned backwards with all the images flipped?

Nah, hat's on backwards... and they pinched the back... I've seen some not so savvy people walk through the doors at Cicada Club wearing their Fedoras on backwards not knowing any better. lol :eusa_doh:

Poor saps.

 

[Feraud]

Has anyone contacted Optimo about this?

Good question. If you are referring to the Optimo/Public Enemies hat connection, I do recall a discussion here about it. There seemed to be little resemblance between the movie hat and their offering. This is not to say they did not make a hat(or hats) for the film but replicating it for the PE market is another story..

 

[Art Fawcett]

Gents, I am not extrapolating anything here nor am I exaggerating. Mr. Lucky, you are right, with film production the costumer has many choices and I can assure you that the hat worn was the one I made. It was NOT pecan so I have no idea if Mr. Brown made other hats for the film, just not the one the article claims that he made. In this case, the costumer is also a personal friend so there isn't any doubt on my part.
Mulcebar, I have done hats for several films , I just don't make a big deal of it. Normally I don't like the pressure that working on film brings ( never enough budget/always behind) so I'm still in one of those "be careful what you wish for" deals.
For the record, I make no remarks as to his quality level, his talent, his business practices. Only the accuracy of his website is in question with me.

 

[AEH]

AEH, in this article that was posted was the quote above. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Mr. Brown did NOT make the hat in question for Brad Pitt. I can say that because I made it and can privately send invoices to prove it. I won't put something like that over the net for privacy reasons but it is abundantly clear that Mr. Brown is stretching the truth in this case.

Dear Art,
I am sorry to hear that Mr. Brown apparently have taken credit for your work, of which I myself own a beautiful example. To me it seems so ridiculous to do such a thing, both for him personally and for his business, that I tend to look for some explanation. This article is written two years before the film came out, could it be that he made a hat that was rejected and a new one commissioned from you? Or may be Mr. Lucky's suggestion about different vendors to choose from? I don't know, I just know that here in Norway a false claim like this had not lasted a day, but then again we are a small and very transparent society.

 

[Brent Hutto]

A question for Art,

What proportion of your hat sales do you attribute to the movie connection? You've said you don't make a big deal about having some of your hats used in movies and to me that sound quite understandable. When it comes right down to it, I've got to believe most of your clientele antes up for a Fawcett hat because it's of fine quality and suits them, not because of a hat that was worn in this or that movie.

As such, I have doubts that Mr. Brown's dubious self-promotion really buys him a whole lot of business at Mr. Fawcett's expense. Or anyone else's for that matter. But maybe I don't understand why people buy hats.

 

[dr greg]

frack to bunt

Nah, hat's on backwards... and they pinched the back... I've seen some not so savvy people walk through the doors at Cicada Club wearing their Fedoras on backwards not knowing any better. lol :eusa_doh:

Poor saps.

No, they were probably dills following a thankfully short-lived trend of wearing fedoras backwards intentionally like some forgotten pimp rapper.....my sax player did it once, until I took the hat off him.
As to the main issue here, hyperbole is the bedrock of the film business and people with something to sell will naturally try and glamourise the product by association....I've worked as an extra and walk-on in lots of films over the years, so I can easily say I was "in" movies with all sorts of famous actors, and if I was an insecure person, make social capital from that. But I don't because who cares really....anyway what matters is: is the hat any good, is there a premium attached due to the hat's linkage with the dream factory, and if so is it justified...he wouldn't be the first advertiser to make exaggerated claims about his product...the Romans had a saying about this...caveat emptor!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Gents, I am not extrapolating anything here

Art I appreciate your position. As a consumer I must "extrapolate" and make the most sound decision regarding the use of my time and money. There is no reason on earth would I go to any vendor who has questionable business practices. Even the appearance of impropriety is enough to turn me away from a business concern. [huh]

 

[Mulceber]

For the record, I make no remarks as to his quality level, his talent, his business practices. Only the accuracy of his website is in question with me.

Just want to say I wasn't suggesting that you had any such remarks. If it seemed like I was suggesting that, then I apologize.

As such, I have doubts that Mr. Brown's dubious self-promotion really buys him a whole lot of business at Mr. Fawcett's expense. Or anyone else's for that matter. But maybe I don't understand why people buy hats.

I don't think that's really why people are getting angry about this. It isn't about whether Art is losing business to Dave Brown, it's about principle: every time someone posts a false claim like this, the talent of the person who actually DID make the hat goes unrecognized. I'm sure Art spent many hours making those hats, and the fact that someone would step in and take credit for Art's work is galling. That's what's at issue. -M

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Art I appreciate your position. As a consumer I must "extrapolate" and make the most sound decision regarding the use of my time and money. There is no reason on earth would I go to any vendor who has questionable business practices. Even the appearance of impropriety is enough to turn me away from a business concern. [huh]

And HERE is the rub - Those "questionable" business practices were not so until brought up HERE and are based on circumstantial and circumspect evidence extrapolated from one photo and then run with! All of a sudden this guy, who no one knows or has bought from or has had any more than negligible contact with, is a 'liar', a 'fraud', etc., etc. And that is in face of rock solid evidence that he HAS made hats for some very high-profile clients and for some major motion pictures!

There is one thing that gets my goat, gentlemen - Cyber lynching! And that is what I see in this thread.

 

[tonyb]

I'd grant the fellow in question this much benefit of a doubt ...

It's perhaps likely that he has someone else tend to his website. And perhaps that other person took certain liberties with that photo and its accompanying copy, thinking that it was close enough to accurate.

It there's anyplace in this online world where such an apparent inaccuracy would get noticed, this would be it. People here care about hats (obviously), and misinformation about hats tends to rub 'em the wrong way.

What we have here isn't a matter of opinion. It isn't one person saying "I think such-and-such is a better hat than a this-or-that." It's a clear factual assertion that is either true or not.

Who was it who famously said people are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts? Patrick Moynihan, I think it was.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

And HERE is the rub - Those "questionable" business practices were not so until brought up HERE and are based on circumstantial and circumspect evidence extrapolated from one photo and then run with! All of a sudden this guy, who no one knows or has bought from or has had any more than negligible contact with, is a 'liar', a 'fraud', etc., etc. And that is in face of rock solid evidence that he HAS made hats for some very high-profile clients and for some major motion pictures!


There is one thing that gets my goat, gentlemen - Cyber lynching! And that is what I see in this thread.

Not so.. This is what did it for me

AEH, in this article that was posted was the quote above. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Mr. Brown did NOT make the hat in question for Brad Pitt. I can say that because I made it and can privately send invoices to prove it. I won't put something like that over the net for privacy reasons but it is abundantly clear that Mr. Brown is stretching the truth in this case.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Not so.. This is what did it for me

He may not have made 'THE' hat, but that doesn't mean he did not make 'A' hat. The date of that article is 2006. When did Benjamin Button come out? 2008! So, a lot can happen during the prep, filming and post of a motion picture - including a change of hats.

 

[Mulceber]

He may not have made 'THE' hat, but that doesn't mean he did not make 'A' hat. The date of that article is 2006. When did Benjamin Button come out? 2008! So, a lot can happen during the prep, filming and post of a motion picture - including a change of hats.

Agreed. I have no doubt that Art made the hat seen on the screen, but given the 2 year difference between the time of the article and the time of the movie's release, a lot could have happened in that time.

I'd grant the fellow in question this much benefit of a doubt ...

It's perhaps likely that he has someone else tend to his website. And perhaps that other person took certain liberties with that photo and its accompanying copy, thinking that it was close enough to accurate.

I agree completely - I also had another similar thought: based on the information on their website, it seems like Baron made the boater for Public Enemies. So it seems that the hats for that movie were not farmed out exclusively to ONE company. What if Brown made one of Depp's other fedoras? I know that there are at least three hats that Depp wears in public enemies, so it's possible that Optimo made the oxblood, Baron made the boater, and Dave Brown made that tan/gray hat from the escape scene (or maybe another Depp hat, if he had any). Then he told the person who runs his website "hey, I made a hat for Johnny Depp in the film 'Public Enemies,'" and the person running his website googles "Johnny Depp public enemies," sees Depp wearing the oxblood, figures that's the one, adds a nifty title underneath saying that it's the hat made by Dave Brown, and adds it to the site. What do you think guys? Plausible? -M