Dating Vintage Stetsons by Price

[RBH]

Thanks, RBH! I can't make out the date of the ad -- is it 1948?

Also, if you get a chance, do you think you could scope out when the Stetson Playboy changed to a price over $10? I suspect that it is in the 1955-1957 range. (It would also be great to get the same info for the Whippet). The answer to that question may help us to determine by what date Stetson was including a plastic liner in their lids.

Cheers!!!

JtL

1953 is the date
I will try to find out if I can!

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks! It looks like 1952 is the last official magazine ad that we have for the Playboy at $10.

If there's anyone else out there with access to magazine ads who could help find when the price moved to over $10 for the Playboy or the Whippet, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
The Lid

 

[jimmy the lid]

Stetson raised their prices in April 1956. Hat Corporation had raised their prices in September and October of 1955, including raising their $12.50 hats to $12.95. I guess six months was as long as they could hold out before market pressures necessitated it.

Many thanks for this info, Brad!!! Did you find this info in Hat Life by any chance?

This news immediately helped me date my light blue Open Road to 1956. Some internet research told me that the store stamped on the sweatband was open from 1956 to 1964. But the original $12.50 price tag was still intact, so this lid was made before the price jumped in April '56. Very cool!

Brad -- does your research tell you that there was an across the board price jump for Stetson lids in April 1956? In particular, I've always wondered when the prices on Royal Stetsons like the Whippet and Playboy increased from $10. What did that initial price jump increase to? $10.50? 10.95?

The other piece of info that would be useful to know would be when the post-war price increase occurred. So, for example when did the price on a Whippet or a Playboy increase to $10? Mid-40's? Late 40's?

Thanks again for this info! If there is any other info you can share it would be much appreciated!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Brad Bowers]

Sorry, Jimmy, I see that I misread an article in my bleary-eyed state late last night. The Stetson prices only went up on the Royal line in April 1956, from $10.50 to $10.95. All Mallory prices went up at the same time, though.

I can't find any mention of when the next price change was, particularly on the Royal Deluxe line, but I'd bet they didn't stay $12.50 for long.

I can find industry-wide reports of price increases in 1941, and nothing more until 1947, when Stetson said they couldn't reduce their prices, but would maintain them at $8.50 and up. In the fall of 1949, Stetson set their prices at $10, $12.50, $15, $20, $25, and $50.

The next report I can find is the one from 1956, and nothing more for a few years after that.

I wish I had access to all the old Hat Life issues! This information is all from the NY Times.

Brad

 

[fedoralover]

I have several Stetson hat ads from 1937, at the very bottom of the page it says and I quote

"Stetsons, from $7.50 (unlined, from $7.00) to $40. Air-light Stetsons, from $5.00"

So way back in 1937 Stetson was selling hats for up to $40.00, that's quite a bit of money for a hat back then. I don't recall ever seeing any ads for hats directly selling for $40.00 back then, but apparently they were available.
Which kinda adds to the confusion. There was a lot of variability back then.

fedoralover

 

[Brad Bowers]

Wow, that is a lot of variability. I have a 1941 Cavanagh ad that lists the most expensive as their $20 "Beaver Quality" line. I wonder if those $40 Stetsons were custom hats.

Brad

 

[jimmy the lid]

Sorry, Jimmy, I see that I misread an article in my bleary-eyed state late last night. The Stetson prices only went up on the Royal line in April 1956, from $10.50 to $10.95.

No problem, Brad. Sometimes those bleary eyes can deceive you. Still, that's valuable info. So, for example, if someone has a Stetson Playboy with a $10 price tag on it, it's fair to say that the hat roughly dates to the 1949-1956 timeframe.

I can find industry-wide reports of price increases in 1941, and nothing more until 1947, when Stetson said they couldn't reduce their prices, but would maintain them at $8.50 and up.

Interestingly, my previous review shows that the Stratoliner was priced at $8.50 at the same time that a Whippet or Playboy was priced at $10. That all seems to have leveled out by 1949, when the Strat was similarly priced.

In the fall of 1949, Stetson set their prices at $10, $12.50, $15, $20, $25, and $50.

So, a Royal Stetson was $10. A Royal DeLuxe was $12.50. I believe that a 3X was $15.00. I wonder what grades the $20, $25 and $50 prices were tied to? I think the $50 price may have been connected to a 7X Clear Beaver.

All very interesting. Thanks for the input, Brad!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[johnnyphi]

Gold vs. Black Logotype

This information is useful in dating other aspects of the hat, as well. In the case of the Centennial Strat, the Stetson logo on the sweatband is not done in the usual gold imprint, but is instead done in black logotype. So, we can at least say (theoretically) that, in 1954, Stetson was using the black logotype. This means that, even without knowing price, other hats using this logotype might date from the same approximate year. [Caveat: ultimately, this will depend on what we learn about Stetson's use of the black logotype, but it at least starts us down the trail...].

For me, personally, this is interesting, since I recently won a Stetson Playboy with this same black logotype -- price $10. Once again, if I could find an ad from 1954 showing a price increase on the Playboy, this might help to date my own hat, and, depending on the black logotype evidence, provide some other clues that may be useful in our "investigation."

Jimmy - I think I can help with the black logotype question. I have several Stetsons in my collection, and the owner of the store told me that Stetson stopped supplying his store in the late 40's.... Sometime around '47 or '48. That means all of my Stetsons are pre-'48. Most of my hats are Royal Stetsons with gold logotype, but I do have 3 "Standard Quality", and all of them have black logotype.

Check out these photos of two different linings and sweatbands. (Style-wise these hats are identical, so it's interesting to see the differences in the liners.):

Note the variations in the Stetson logo, the size labels and the lining on the second picture.

I think the gold vs. black logo probably has more to do with the quality, than the age of the hat.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks for the input, Johnnyphi! Much appreciated. The "standard" Stetson quality is a new one for me -- I've never seen those kinds of liners or logos. Very interesting.

For reference, the kind of black logotype I was initially referring to is something like this:

I've seen this kind of black logotype on two lids that definitively date to 1954, including a Stratoliner. I'm really curious about the use of the black logotype. Don't know if it was something that was in general use during a narrow period of time, or whether it was used over a longer period. Or, was this logotype used by a particular manufacturing subsidiary of Stetson, so that it denotes place of origin? Was it limited to certain quality levels or styles?

All mysteries for the fedora archaeologist to unravel...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Brad Bowers]

Price Increases in 1941

Price increases effective February 15, 1941:

$5 retail price maintained on Playboy extra lightweight
Stetsons of heavier weight increased from $5 to $5.50
Stratoliners increased from $6 to $6.50
Premier quality with liners increased from $8 to $8.50
Premier quality without liners increased from $7.50 to $8.50


Brad

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks, Brad -- keep it coming!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[KY Gentleman]

Second . . . could we expand our list to include other major manufacturers and their styles? Such as Knox, Mallory, Champ, etc.?

I have a Resistol Kings that I bought off eBay, inside the sweatband it lists the price as $27.50 . The seller said the hat was from the early '50's. The price may have been influenced by the fact that its a 7 7/8 which is hard to find now, much less in the early '50's.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I really have to commend you fine gentlemen for all the work you are putting into this thread. It is increadably helpful and informative.
To throw more logs on the fire.
The Royal Stetson

NO.1 Quality

Boss Raw Edge

 

[jimmy the lid]

The Royal Stetson

Thanks for jumping in, Douglas! I am really intrigued by the Royal Stetson photos -- they appear to be from a very early model. As a general matter, the hats sold at the Stetson company retail store at 1224 Chestnut Street in Philly were stamped with the date of purchase on the back of the sweat. Could you check on this? I'll bet there is also some price info there, as well.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[DOUGLAS]

JtL, that was the first thing I looked for. I have not found any date or price. This perticular model I think pre-dates Royal Stetsons as a quality line only because the two I have are both "THE ROYAL STETSON" as a model type not a Royal Stetson . They both have the same super fine liner and both have the adjustable sweat ribbon. They both have the Mode-Edge.

I just found the other one which is a Zepher weight. It also has a great sweat which is folded behind itself. this one does have a price tag. This to me is a superior hat to any other I have from Stetson. The felt is so smooth and it has so much detail. I wish I had one in every color.

 

[johnnyphi]

Thanks for jumping in, Douglas! I am really intrigued by the Royal Stetson photos -- they appear to be from a very early model. As a general matter, the hats sold at the Stetson company retail store at 1224 Chestnut Street in Philly were stamped with the date of purchase on the back of the sweat. Could you check on this? I'll bet there is also some price info there, as well.

Cheers,
JtL

This is a great clue... Standard Quality and Extra Quality seem to be the official designations. I took another photo of the logo for you to compare.

It seems like the Extra Quality logo is identical to the Standard Quality, except for the black logotype and gold logotype.

This fits with 2 of my theories...

1) Gold logotype is a sign of higher quality hats.

2) The Standard Quality hat is an old hat. It reminds me of a hat J. Edgar Hoover wore when he was fighting bootleggers in the 30's. (I'll try to post comparison photos.)

 

[jimmy the lid]

This is all very interesting. Putting the input from Douglas and Johnnyphi together, I wonder whether "Standard Quality" and "Extra Quality" morphed into "Royal Stetson" and "Royal DeLuxe Stetson" -- say sometime in the early 40's? I didn't realize that "The Royal Stetson" actually denoted a model of hat prior to the term "Royal Stetson" being used to denote a particular quality of hat.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[DOUGLAS]

What a tangled web we are weaving. At this point with all the information that has been uncovered even if it is not 100% concrete, there is more info here about Stetson than even the top brass at that company currently know.

 

[Brad Bowers]

What a tangled web we are weaving. At this point with all the information that has been uncovered even if it is not 100% concrete, there is more info here about Stetson than even the top brass at that company currently know.

Scary, huh?lol

I wish HATCO had more of a sense of their own history, but the Old Guard has long since gone and the dust of antiquity is accumulating on their body of knowledge. It's up to us to dig it up and keep dusting it off so it doesn't get buried forever!

Brad

 

[DOUGLAS]

Not only scary but embarrassing that they don't know or care about their own history. A very lax way of running a company who has thousands of customers