Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

[Brad Bowers]

1984 is quite a lot earlier than "the 1990s" as stated above. So, we are starting to edge closer to my thought that Stetson hats started using the metric size tag after the original company had shut down in the 70s and sold the naming rights.

I still seem to recall a thread here that said that the name was sold officially in 1974 and if the company stopped being owned and operated by the Stetson family by 1972 (at least) then my 1974 date is very possible.

The digging for info continues...

This article from February 12, 1971, talks about the acquisition of Stetson by Stevens Hat Co. and that production will move to Missouri, so still earlier than 1974.

Brad

 

[fedoracentric]

Fantastic. FINALLY someone with some actual evidence. Just what I needed. So, I was a couple years late and likely my memory not as good as I hoped (though maybe someone did say 1974 in an earlier thread and they were just wrong).

Thanks for the article note, Brad. Great stuff.

Now, our only other question is just when did Stetson start putting the metric size on the tags? We now know it was at least as early as 1984.

 

[barrowjh]

I remember the Jimmy Carter administration really pushed the metric conversion cause, after Carter it fizzled. Carter was 1976 - 1980, I think.

 

[fedoracentric]

That is a really good point, Mr. Barrow! Maybe Stetson went with the metric along with the Eurocentric push for the metric system? And with an eye toward selling more overseas. It is also possible that the overseas Stetson licensees had stopped being able to produce hats under the Stetson name by 1971 when Stevens bought the name.

I have seen Japanese Stetsons, German Stetsons, Mexican ones, Australian ones, British ones. Anyone seen a licensed Stetson from any other country than those?

 

[ManofKent]

I have seen Japanese Stetsons, German Stetsons, Mexican ones, Australian ones, British ones. Anyone seen a licensed Stetson from any other country than those?

I only own a German and a British one, but I think Joao has recently acquired a Spanish one.

 

[nightandthecity]

this might be of interest...the guy's only post, if i read it right he had been a Stetson salesman?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?7047-The-Open-Road-Guild/page58

"Stetson and St Joseph
During the late 1960s the Stetson plant in Philadelphia was outdated and had labor troubles. A small plant in St Joseph Mo was making a few westerns hats for Stetson. When Stetsons president decided to sell the rights to make the hats, it looked all over the county for a reputable firm to license
the Stetson name. The Stevens Hat Manufacturing Co in St Joseph was chosen from many suitors. Stevens was a small two family owned manufacture of hats, caps and gloves. The third generation of hatmakers were in control and were excellent hatmakers. All of the equipment and a few of supervisors were moved to the St Jo location. At that time Cowboy movies was released and the western hat boomed. Truck drivers, lawyers, business men all wore cowboy hats thanks to John Travolta. I traveled West Texas and I had a limit on how many dozen hats per store. The Stevens Company purchased Paisano Hat Co in Laredo Texas. They made western straws and was moved to St Joseph in the 250000 sq ft plant. The salesmen carried Stetson cologne, Stetson gloves, umbrellas, belt buckles and hat bands.
The sales continued and in 1983 the Stetson Licensee Co purchased the entire Stevens stock. Unfortunately they knew nothing about making a great hat and the quality disappeared and Stetson went bankrupt. Irving Joel, another quality hatmaker bought the company and when he died Hicks-Muse and Tate bought Stetson and after a few years moved the operation to Garland Texas."

 

[fedoracentric]

Interesting info, night. Thanks for dredging that up.

 

[nightandthecity]

it occurs to me from browsing a few of these threads, that it could also help in dating to pin down exactly when Stetson did and didn't stamp the model name inside the sweat. For example, my OR (possibly c.1978) doesn't have the OR name inside, only Royal Stetson and the co. logo.

 

[TheDane]

it occurs to me from browsing a few of these threads, that it could also help in dating to pin down exactly when Stetson did and didn't stamp the model name inside the sweat. For example, my OR (possibly c.1978) doesn't have the OR name inside, only Royal Stetson and the co. logo.

Then it's not an OR. Stetson always did that. A lot of their hats (ususally their best) never had a model name. You will also find lots of hats, that are not distinguishable from a Whippet - but don't carry the designation. It's got nothing to do with age/period, either.

 

[carouselvic]

then it's not an or. Stetson always did that. A lot of their hats (ususally their best) never had a model name. You will also find lots of hats, that are not distinguishable from a whippet - but don't carry the designation. It's got nothing to do with age/period, either.

this is not correct

 

[gtdean48]

OR of the late 70's only had a perforated paper tag that had the model name on it.
They are definitely OR's but those tags could be long gone.

 

[TheDane]

this is not correct

Well, then you maybe should tell us, where I'm wrong. I'm very interested in learning, but your comment isn't really useful in that context

 

[Lotsahats]

With just a little searching on the web (to say nothing of the resources here in the lounge), I was able to find this link to another story confirming 1971 as the year of transfer to the Stevens Hat Manufacturing Company. While the finer points of hat dating might at times be obscure, company histories are generally available.

Aaron

 

[carouselvic]

STETSON HATS AND THE JOHN B. STETSON COMPANY 1865-1970 by Jeffrey B. Snyder is a great book on the history of this company.

 

[gtdean48]

Good article too = http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...0wrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XdQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3089,1617270

 

[gtdean48]

Another slant on the story =
The hats were manufactured by the Stetson Hat Company until the mid-1960s when its chief stockholder, Ira Guilden, closed down operations due to a decline in demand. Guilden switched to licensing the Stetson name. In one of the more successful ventures, Cody cosmetics purchased rights to use the trademark for Stetson Cologne. In 1984 Guilden, with the advice of one of his top executives, bought out the Stevens Hat Company and returned to manufacturing Stetson hats. The company also began to manufacture men's and women's accessories. In the late 1980s it overextended itself and fell upon hard times. Upon Guilden's death in 1986, his daughter, Frances Gardner, took over the management of the company and was forced into bankruptcy.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Mary Blount Christian, Hats off to John Stetson (New York: Macmillan, 1992). Forbes, September 22, 1986. Elbert Hubbard, A Little Journey to the Home of John B. Stetson, 3d ed. (East Aurora, New York: Roycrofters, 1916). San Antonio Express, November 22, 1925.

 

[TheDane]

I still don't see, what was wrong with my statement, that many Stetson hats had no model names(?)

 

[carouselvic]

I still don't see, what was wrong with my statement, that many Stetson hats had no model names(?)

That was about all that's correct.
(Then it's not an OR. Stetson always did that.)this is false
(It's got nothing to do with age/period, either.)this is false

 

[splintercellsz]

1900s - 1910s

 

[TheDane]

That was about all that's correct.
(Then it's not an OR. Stetson always did that.)this is false
(It's got nothing to do with age/period, either.)this is false

erhhh ... thanks ... I guess [huh]