Dating US 4-piece Sport Suit Brown Fleck

[Baron Kurtz]

No that's not a date. Looks to be a dry cleaners mark.

Re: fit. It really needs that belt doesn't it? I would definitely insert some pleats in the rear to get some decent waist suppression. It's a bit saggy 'round the middle (ripples on the front shot at the waist level), is this because the belt and probable pleats in the back are gone? Hold on, though. Is that one little seam thread the sole evidence upon which to base the thought that there was once a belt? There should be other signs, no? Hold it up to the light (I assume it's part lined) and see if you can see the stitch holes running horizontally across the rear waist area.

What a lovely suit, though. very nice fabric indeed.

 

[Fastuni]

Since the fabric is "porous" the stitch-holes are barely visible. Maybe it was a real half belt that was only sewn into the seams (rather unusual for US coats...)?

I checked the inside of the side seams.... at the appropriate height there is cut-off fabric that certainly would be from a belt:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

OK, well, that pretty much nails it! thanks for the extra info. Wonder why anyone would remove the belt? Not their style, I guess.

bk

 

[Two Types]

I assumed that the belt, and pleats etc, were removed to accomodate an expanding waistline.

 

[reetpleat]

That makes a lot of sense. Of course, then you have to see how far the pants have been taken out. Or, they might have just thought it was an unattractive look, outdated style, getting caught on things etc. no one back then ever imagined someone 80 years later would wish they had not cut a belt off.

 

[reetpleat]

It will be interesting to compare the waist measurement on the jacket with the waist measurement on the trousers. That will give an indication of whether or not the belt/pleats were removed at some point. Also, if the rear seam on the trousers has been let out to accomodate an expanding waistline.

I think that, if it is a good fit, you should leave it as it is - and celebrate the fact that you have found a distinctive style of suit.

For once, I think that you are going to have to post photos of yourself wearing the suit, rather than on a mannequin. Then you will be able get feedback on whether the jacket needs to be altered and how best to do it.

Ah, one step ahead of me.

 

[reetpleat]

My guess is late forties to early 50s. Nice suit regardless. And 2 pairs of pants! You can turn one trouser into plus fours if you want! (That's what I'd do.)
Edit: I just noticed the bit about the zippers. Very interesting. I guess that makes it much more likely a 30s suit.

At a glance, based on fabric and cut of jacket, I would have guessed early 50s. But I know some fabrics that were common in the 50s were also popular in the 30s and 40s. The button fly, while not conclusive, would be an indication of earlier. The fit of the jacket without the belt really looks 50s. I would find it unusual for a 30s jacket to be made with no belt but the upper back treatment. However, I would not find it all that unusual in a 50s suit, as it could be emulating 40s sportswear. Although with a belt or back taken in, it might have a very different look. The label looks kind of 30s, but if I recall, Curlee Clothes continued to use such a label till the 50s, or I may be completely wrong on that.

I have, numerous times compared measurements on regular double breasted jackets with and without belt back. There was always a very clear difference or two in how they were cut on the sides and even the front I think. It was a while ago. Don't know about single breasted. But in what I saw, a belted back is not just a ragular jacket with a belt on it.

I suggest measurements to compare both.

Can owner pin the back as a belt type style, and then take pictures of the front?

I think a non attached belt is a good guess. IT would fit the style, in my mind.

If owner really wanted a belt back, I would suggest taking it from bottom of back panel, lowering the lower half of back panel, and using belt to bridge the gap created. I do not necessarily recommend it, but if owner wanted to...

Another option that would be really cool is make one pair of pants into knickers or plus fours, and use the bottom removed to make a belt. It is likely that a portion of the cuff region , with a seam in the middle, would be a perfect belt.

Personally, I do not always support altering vintage clothing, but two pair of pants, other than insurance, is kind of a waste. But a choice between suit or plus fours would make it smashing indeed, so it becomes a double benefit for the fairly easy job. I would consider that worthwhile, especially because, given the fit of the jacket, I might never wear it. But a belted back would be a prized part of the wardrobe.

Or, if the legs are too long, a bit of the bottom of one pair would make a fine belt. But I would still be tempted to do the plus fours.

 

[DamianM]

options

1) make a plus four
2) Remake the belt-back with the extra trousers
3) Use extra trousers for an 8 panel cap or flat cap to match the suit and you'll have a full desirable suit. << personally I would do this

awesome suit

 

[Fastuni]

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

As to the fit and age... not only was the belt removed, the side seams directly under the arm pits were altered as well! Meaning the waist was straightened and the suppression taken out. Together with the zipper-retrofit over the button-fly indicates to me without a doubt that this was a 30's suit "updated" during the 50's. I will therefore first take in the side seams to give it the original 30's fit.

Now how will I recreate the half belt:

The legs are indeed sufficiently long for making false cuffs... the inside fabric is enough for a belt (with middle seam).

I'm a "long slacks man", so it would be for me a waste to take apart one pair of perfectly good pants in great condition with a fabric that combines well with other jackets.

So no Plus-fours for me - but taking fabric from the bottom of the legs is exactly what I will do.

Best Regards

 

[reetpleat]

I would take the fabric from the flat front and keep them as a back up in case I wear out the pleated. Because I like pleats. But I love the idea of plus fours AND a flat cap, if there were enough fabric for it.

 

[DamianM]

Well then just make a cap for it aswell

 

[Fastuni]

The deed is done. False cuffs for the flat-front pants and a nice belted and pleated back for the coat. The side seams have been also taken in as it originally used to be - turned out nice. Photos follow tomorrow.

Reetpleat, pleated pants are also my favorites. The pleated ones of this suit have been worn a bit, while the flat-fronts are as good as new. They will certainly extend the lifetime of the suit quite a bit. For summer-wear only anyway. Much too light for German climate from September to April.

Damian, a matching cap would surely be great, but a practically new pair of trousers trumps that.

Cheers

 

[herringbonekid]

do you have enough spare fabric to do the belt as one piece, without a centre seam ?

 

[Fastuni]

Unfortunately not - there would be 4-5 cm missing to create a seamless half-belt (that would leave a coat that fits well).
But I did try to match the pattern as good as possible and the seam is barely visible.

 

[herringbonekid]

i'm sure it will still look good !

 

[DamianM]

so you cut a pair of slacks for false cuffs?

 

[Fastuni]

Oh no, both pants are still perfectly useable - only the flat-front pants now have false cuffs (not attached ones, but just a horizontal seam inside the leg to create the fold without the depth of a real cuff) because I took a strip of fabric from the inside of the cuff for the half-belt. No garment was sacrificed.

 

[reetpleat]

I think it would be hard to find the length for a one piece belt. But a well sewn, tightly pressed seam should be barely noticeable.

 

[Fastuni]

Now here how it looks now.

Cheers

 

[herringbonekid]

(the edges of the fabric were handstitched on the backside and now are "pressing through" a bit)

Fastuni, do you mean you tacked / cross-stitched the raw edges to the back of the belt ?

i wouldn't bother doing this as it doesn't need 'holding up' like the bottom edge of a jacket does. i just leave about 1cm raw edge and sew the belt straight on.