Dating US 4-piece Sport Suit Brown Fleck

[Fastuni]

I would like to know some reasoned estimates here as to the age of this suit.

It is obviously American, fabric brown with red "broken" Windowpane and orange and white flecks.
Pleated back with straight yoke, flapped patch hip pockets, not overly wide shoulders.

One pair pleated pants, one flatfront. Both had button-fly with zippers attached at some point.
Fob pockets and cuffs on both of 'em. Waistcoat with 6 buttons...

I bought it on the assumption of being mid-30's to early 40's.

Your thoughts?

(Note that the suit hasn't arrived here yet, so I don't have checked on Union Labels or Name/Date tags).



Thanks and Cheers

 

[herringbonekid]

i saw this suit and wondered if the back belt had been removed.

looks mid 30s to me.

 

[Fastuni]

Thanks - that would be my guess as well.

Intriguing thought that the belt would have been removed... At least from the photos it's hard to discern traces.

 

[Burma Schave]

Now taking bets. I'll wager that this suit's jacket never did have a belt. The back is as it has always been.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Agreed.

 

[dhermann1]

My guess is late forties to early 50s. Nice suit regardless. And 2 pairs of pants! You can turn one trouser into plus fours if you want! (That's what I'd do.)
Edit: I just noticed the bit about the zippers. Very interesting. I guess that makes it much more likely a 30s suit.

 

[Dinerman]

The zipper retrofit over the original button fly is interesting.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Oh...you got this. Lucky as usual. Very nice suit with a rather subtle fancy back (which seems very unusual). I couldn't date it from a picture of the front since the waist doesn't seem to be very pronounced but I am curious abou the pictures when being worn.

 

[herringbonekid]

The back is as it has always been.

... and what year do you think it was made ?

 

[GoldenEraFan]

I'd estimate 1936-1942 era based on the cut alone. Real beauty!

 

[herringbonekid]

everything about the suit says 1936 to me, except the back which is curiously wide across the waist (you'd expect a mid 30s suit to have much more waist suppression).
the back does however, have the sort of shoulder yoke and pleats we've seen on countless mid 30s belt backs.

conclusion: the belt has been removed and the lower pleats pressed out.

 

[Two Types]

HBK: Interesting observation - and one that (I'm hoping) will stir up lots of debate.

The question must be: has anyone previously seen that style of yoke and pleats without a belted back?

 

[Fastuni]

Thanks for all your input.

Hm... I second Two Types question. The charts and illustrations I have seen never show sportsback with only a yoke.
Although If a costumer would demand it... not an unimaginable possibility.

 

[herringbonekid]

Fastuni,

if you don't like how it fits when it arrives, i would personally go for options 2 or 3.

i don't see where spare fabric could come from to recreate a belt (if one pair of trousers were badly moth damaged you could have sacrificed them, but that isn't the case. :eusa_doh

The charts and illustrations I have seen never show sportsback with only a yoke.
Although If a costumer would demand it... not an unimaginable possibility.

you see them on 'Hollywood' jackets, but not on suits.

if i'm wrong, then this is actually more interesting as we have a new (and rare) example of a 30s suit.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

It may be an unfinished piece OR they wanted to try something different. With the many variations on sport suits, why not? It has something of a shirt back like this. It's original not defective.
Go for 2) if it doesn't fit without waist surpression.

 

[Two Types]

It will be interesting to compare the waist measurement on the jacket with the waist measurement on the trousers. That will give an indication of whether or not the belt/pleats were removed at some point. Also, if the rear seam on the trousers has been let out to accomodate an expanding waistline.

I think that, if it is a good fit, you should leave it as it is - and celebrate the fact that you have found a distinctive style of suit.

For once, I think that you are going to have to post photos of yourself wearing the suit, rather than on a mannequin. Then you will be able get feedback on whether the jacket needs to be altered and how best to do it.

 

[Fastuni]

Will do.
Agreed - if the back is original that way I won't touch it.

As to the measurements, the seller gave the following:
20 inches across waist on jacket.
18 inches across waist on waistcoat.
17 inches across waist on trousers (judging from the photo they are at original width).

For comparison:
my similar sized German summer sport coat with elasticated back has a waist measured across at 18 inches -
when stretching the elastic back it reaches 20 inches.

 

[Fastuni]

Received the suit (photos will follow later today).

1) HBK was on the money - it was indeed once a belt-back. Thread remnants were found at the side-seams.
Fit is great but a wee bit loose... I will either take in the seams or add folds to the waist.

2) It is a natural shoulder coat. There is NO padding. Zilch zero nada. And it was not removed. Has anyone photographic evidence of mid to late 1930's suits with natural shoulders? I assumed this was a 20's to early 30's thing.

3) No Union label... but I think it is safe to assume 1930's.

4) It is quite light.... a spring and summer suit. Just in time.

Best Regards

 

[herringbonekid]

1) HBK was on the money - it was indeed once a belt-back. Thread remnants were found at the side-seams.
Fit is great but a wee bit loose... I will either take in the seams or add folds to the waist.

2) It is a natural shoulder coat. There is NO padding. Zilch zero nada. And it was not removed. Has anyone photographic evidence of mid to late 1930's suits with natural shoulders? I assumed this was a 20's to early 30's thing.

i have a white linen suit with zero padding (NRA label) and a palm beach type fabric jacket with zero padding (early-mid 30s). nothing later.

 

[Fastuni]

Thanks for the info HBK... I remember a FL thread on 30's natural shoulders with some movie stills... but I didn't find it yet

Fit on body (it has very very little waist suppression... I will have to create that somehow):

On mannequin (the rest of the body shots turned out abysmally crappy):

Natural shoulder with strongly slanted seam:

Side seam... the thread of the removed half-belt can discerned here:

In the pleated pants (used) there was the owners name plus the top number code...
The flatfront pants (unused) had the same code with the last number being a 4 instead of a 8.
Could the 3935 part of both numbers mean 9. March 1935?

Best Wishes