D-1 vs. down jacket warmth

[Vince in Philly]

I know similar questions have been asked in the past, but I'm specifically interested in feedback regarding the relative warmth of a D-1 jacket (perhaps Aero) compared to a modern down insulated jacket for winter. I tend to be cold in the winter, so it would be great if anyone who has both types of jackets could share their experience. A puffy down jacket keeps me warm, but it looks - well, you know...

 

[Stand By]

Hi Vince,
Using my ELC RW B-6 as a reference here (which has the same thickness of sheepskin as a D-1 - and which is a general standard thickness as a rule, but Aero's is a little thicker and fluffier - therefore warmer), I'd say they're fairly comparable but it rather depends on the down jacket as they can vary in thickness/quality and from maker-to-maker - but the way in which a D-1 would score over a down jacket would be in cold sleet/wet snow weathers. Mine holds out the wet weather rather well (I wouldn't wear it if it's raining more than a light drizzle - but sleet and wet snow can happen later after I've left the house) and it keeps me reliably dry underneath - but a fabric jacket would just get wet.

 

[pak]

A down Jacket weighing a fraction of the d-6 will be warmer, less expensive and all round more useful. The D-6 will give you more wind protection and won't get wet as fast. However when it does get wet drying time will be lengthy. If you want the D-6, may I suggest getting a light down vest to layer under the jacket. You will be wearing the jacket you like and prepared for a variety of conditions. Additionally wearing a nylon fabric layering garment under the wool will aid in your movement while wearing the sheepskin. Some may suggest a wool sweater or wool vest but, in my opinion,these will compound the bulkiness of the sheepskin.

 

[Edward]

Never owned a down jacket myself. I do, however have a civilian version of the N3B, with nylon shell, lining, and polyester fill insulation. If anything, my LW B3 and ELC Irvin just have the edge in temrs of warmth, but the N3B would be my first pick in rain. It's not totally waterproof, but I've spent a couple of hours out in some fairly heavy rain in it and it has never soaked through. The N3B was also significantly cheaper; an own-brand affair from a local army surplus place, that came to a grand total of GBP75 - I think that's just about USD100 currently, with the fall in sterling in recent months. Feels as good as an Alpha to me. FWIW, ex-issue N3Bs in grade 1 (excellent used) condition sell for about the same price here. It'll never have an opunce of the panache of the shearlings, but it certainly was more affordable, copes well with rain, and covers the full length of a blazer, which can be a bonus. To extrapolate from this back to the OP's question, there's a place for both; buy the down while you save up for the shearling, and once you have the latter, you'll still find occasions on which the nylon-shelled down jacket is useful.

 

[Peacoat]

Interestingly, before I read Vince's post, I was testing my ThunderBay to see how it compared to a quilted Thinsulate type of liner. When I read the post, I decided to add my Canada Goose coat (down filled) to the mix, as I thought the Shearling in the ThunderBay would be close to the D-1 he asked about. The shearling in the D-1 may be a bit more than what the TB has.

The temp was 45 degrees with heavy overcast (no sun) and no wind. I was sitting on my deck smoking a cigar wearing only a long sleeve cotton T-shirt, sweat pants and boots. In the TB I was comfortable for 30 to 40 minutes until I began to feel chilled. Some of chill was because I wore no gloves and my hands were really cold. I then put on the quilted lining, and was comfortable for only 10 minutes. I wanted to add gloves but felt that might skew the experiment. Then came the down filled coat. It was noticeably warmer than the TB. I stayed out 30 minutes with no chilling except on my hands. Like Vince, I too feel the chill pretty easily. A long sleeve polypropylene undershirt helps me tremendously

I would give the TB with its shearling lining (corduroy in the sleeves) a 6 to 7, the quilted lining a 2 to 3 and the down filled Canada Goose a 10.

I got the Canada Goose (from a fellow board member) for wear in a cold football stadium on Sunday afternoons. Obviously, I would wear more than a long sleeve T-shirt in that situation. There is room for layering in that coat. The TB wouldn't be a good choice while being inactive for a long period of time, although there is room for a vest under it. I think the TB would be good in cold weather, in the 20s and 30s, while wearing a long sleeve polypropylene shirt under a wool shirt. I have worn it with that combination down in the teens, but not for long periods of time.

The ThunderBay is good in the rain and snow. I wore it today after the testing in a light rain with the temp at 45. I was walking a bit and stayed warm and dry. If the D-1 has thicker shearling than my TB, then it would be appreciably warmer.

While I haven't exactly answered your question, I hope I have at least given you an idea of the difference in warmth between the down coat and Aero's shorter shearling in the TB.

 

[kirkaero]

3/4 to 1 inch sheepskin is warmer than down except for 8000M climbing suits. Even 1/4 inch sheepskin is as warm as most down jackets. I were down while mountain climbing and sheepskin for everything else. Sheep seems warmer while standing around, down when moving.

 

[Plumbline]

I have an older Aero D-1 ( I've had 3 x Aeros and 2 x Eastmans .... the best all round 3 season shearling there is ) have had numerous B-6's ( 1 x Eastman, 2 x Aero's ) .... and for winter warmth vs the lighter shearlings... Down wins every time ( cost / weight / performance ) .. the shearlings are slightly more durable and water resistant and theyre both a pain when wet.

The thicker shearlings ( B3 / Irvin / Anj4 ) are as warm as down but bulky and heavier. But look way cooler

( comparison against RAB / CG 900 fill equiv )

HTH

 

[rocketeer]

I have both. A big old puff jacket like an MA1with a man made shell, Viscose possibly. The filling is pure down and feather and not a skinny thing, about the same size and thickness as a B3.
Looks: B3 wind hands down.
Warmth: Equal easy, maybe puffer slightly warmer.
Comfort: B3, I can lounge and watch TV in this, make a pillow and doze.
Puffer just feels man made, good at what it does(keeps you warm while working) but no sense of personality if a jacket can have it, the puffer has non.
Weather protection: B3 can take time to dry out if wet but dried properly it will be fine.
Puffer soaks up water like a sponge and looks crap.
Collector interest: B3= ¥£$€. Puffer= No second hand value worth mentioning though if the military take this up maybe they will. I had some USAAF down flight pants but was warned not to get them wet if I wore them as the feathers will sit in there pockets(like a bed quilt)
Resumé, B3 all the way unless it's a dirty job likely to stain an expensive jacket.

 

[ButteMT61]

Two totally different beasts - apples vs oranges, etc.
Nothing of value to add sans I can't imagine it being a choice really. The intended use should likely dictate the one to get 98% of the time. As was said, the looks win go to the sheerling every time. But for light weight, performance (assuming best in category for both) and other "usability" factors, down would win.
I've got both, and down vests as well. A good closet has lots of pieces to use for the best purpose. Good luck, but really, get one of each. At least

 

[bn1966]

Nearest I get to a 'Down Jacket' is an MA-1

 

[Worf]

No down in my closet. Don't want to look like the "Sta Puff Man" (Think Ghostbusters). Down was all the rage when I was in college. Just never got into it. I'll wear a parka (Gummint Issue) but that's as close as I go. I've an Aero Irvin, Thurston Bros. B-10, AL D1, a Viet Nam era N3B and I just received my GoodWear ANJ-4. For anything down to the 20's the ANJ-4 and the D1 are fine. Anything colder than that, it the Irvin, B-10, N3B or my Thunderbay.

Worf

 

[ChiTownScion]

My ANJ-4 and an Orvis (ersatz) RN Submariner jumper(sweater): keeps me toasty in a Chicago blizzard, at least from the waist up. I only wish that someone sold reproduction ANT35 (AN6554) shearling trousers to go with it.

 

[AeroFan_07]

A Real Canada Goose Down Parka should be far more than enough for any type of weather to about -40F. (Or lower, depends on the model). I typically retire any type of leather below about 20F as the shell just gets too cold. These are all made in Canada: http://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/men/parkas/

I did find some on clearance in Seattle last fall for around $550. Should have sprung for one at that time!

 

[rocketeer]

I guess the improvement in insulating materials is why B3s, D1s etc are no longer used for intended purposes(mainly out of cockpit) except for us posers. I have not seen anyone on an antarctic exploration done up in Irvins etc as a clothing item of choice.
I don't really want to join another forum so I ask does anyone follow adventure/exploration history who could share some knowledge on this. Just what were Captain Scott's party or Ernest Shackleton kitted out with for their adventures on the ice? I would say usually down or animal skins. A lot of modern day extreme cold weather clothing has highly insulating man made materials, their weight being a key feature over the old fashioned stuff. Walking a dog in a B3 is not too much of a problem, but if setting off to dig to dig gold in the Yukon is your thing you may wish to travel as light as possible.

 

[Richedm]

I know similar questions have been asked in the past, but I'm specifically interested in feedback regarding the relative warmth of a D-1 jacket (perhaps Aero) compared to a modern down insulated jacket for winter. I tend to be cold in the winter, so it would be great if anyone who has both types of jackets could share their experience. A puffy down jacket keeps me warm, but it looks - well, you know...

I have a North Face Nuptse 96 jacket and an Avi Leather D-1. I’d say from a lightness perspectives the NF is better but I find my D-1 is plenty warm. If it’s -30 as it gets here in northern Alberta the NF is the way to go but if it’s a bit milder the D-1 holds up just fine, plus you can layer it pretty easily based on its dimensions. You can put an A-2 underneath it or a nice RAF turtleneck. It’s far more stylish than a down coat too IMO. Hope that helps.