CXL FQHH Medium vs Heavy weight (1.1mm vs 1.4mm)

[Canuck Panda]

Great overview - thanks Tom!

In this pic the horse looks much shinier and oilier than the steer. Is that an accurate difference, or just in this photo?

The horse (FQHH) do feel oilier than the steer. But they from two different sources. I'll update again when I get Aero's tumbled steer. Maybe steer is much thicker so it feels less oily I am not sure. I do like the oily feel.

 

[jglf]

View attachment 466970
Aero's heavyweight CXL FQHH on the left and my own heavyweight CXL Steer on the right. I think Aero orders their CXL Steer at about 4oz. I've got one of their tumbled CXL SH on order, I think it will hit the sweet spot in robust/wear-ability.

It wasn't very scientific but I left both jackets out in the cold for the same 15 minutes before bringing them in and see how long it takes each to feel warmed up and pliable. Heavy CXL FQHH is not much different than heavy CXL Steer in that little experiment. Although the Steer feels heavier by pounds because it is thicker. So I can see where the more pliable feeling would come from. I would expect the steer to take more time given its increased thickness but they took about the same time to become pliable. Both took about the same time or less it takes my car to warm up in cold mornings. But some mornings I am in crappier mood and sitting in cold car was enough.

This would be where the current median weight CXL FQHH shines. It requires no warm up. The Cherry version I have also feels a bit more oily than the other heavier weight FQHH. My own CXL Steer feels waxier. Horween has a range. I like all thickness of CXL. I am a CXL crazy fan.

What color tumbled SH do you have on order? I’m looking at possibly using black tumbled cxl SH for my next jacket.

 

[Damon141]

All this CXL talk makes me think of a couple Japanese articles where they love the quality of CXL and thought that Shinki horsehide was inferior (before I get yelled at, this was just two reviews so it means nothing) but I just chuckled because over here in the west we can’t get enough of Shinki.
Reminds me everyone likes imported or foreign items, grass is greener syndrome. It’s like when I was a kid we always liked Heineken beer but after traveling to Europe it was tremendously popular for the locals to drink Bud Light at the time.

Shinki must be great horsehide because respected lounge members with 50 jackets in their closet clearly know what they are talking about but still makes me wonder what other hides out there that are not really talked about. I will soon have a Shinki but also hope to own something in black CXL one day because I like the soft aging effects where the pigment doesn’t chip like on my boots.

Maryam horsehide is another thicker leather (1.5mm) I’ve seen on Taobao on the more premium offerings.​

 

[MrProper]

All this CXL talk makes me think of a couple Japanese articles where they love the quality of CXL and thought that Shinki horsehide was inferior (before I get yelled at, this was just two reviews so it means nothing) but I just chuckled because over here in the west we can’t get enough of Shinki.
Reminds me everyone likes imported or foreign items, grass is greener syndrome. It’s like when I was a kid we always liked Heineken beer but after traveling to Europe it was tremendously popular for the locals to drink Bud Light at the time.

Shinki must be great horsehide because respected lounge members with 50 jackets in their closet clearly know what they are talking about but still makes me wonder what other hides out there that are not really talked about. I will soon have a Shinki but also hope to own something in black CXL one day because I like the soft aging effects where the pigment doesn’t chip like on my boots.

Maryam horsehide is another thicker leather (1.5mm) I’ve seen on Taobao on the more premium offerings.​

I've only had a Shinki jacket, but I have to say that I don't prefer this leather over the others. Nice, but one of many for me. If I had to choose just one, it would probably be CXL.

 

[Marc mndt]

It’s like when I was a kid we always liked Heineken beer but after traveling to Europe it was tremendously popular for the locals to drink Bud Light at the time.

This is the old Heineken brewery in my hometown. Over here Heineken is considered non-premium.

Shinki must be great horsehide because respected lounge members with 50 jackets in their closet clearly know what they are talking about but still makes me wonder what other hides out there that are not really talked about.

Of course Shinki is only the name of the tannery. They produce a variety of leathers, some nice some not so nice.

The black swatches on the right are Shinki horsehide. They all came from the same tannery yet they're totally different leathers. Therefore saying "Shinki leather has this or that quality" is total nonsenses.

The swatch on the left is 'Italian horsehide' as used by Thedi leathers. Nicer than most of the Shinki leathers I've handled.

 

[Hide'n'seek]

All this CXL talk makes me think of a couple Japanese articles where they love the quality of CXL and thought that Shinki horsehide was inferior (before I get yelled at, this was just two reviews so it means nothing) but I just chuckled because over here in the west we can’t get enough of Shinki.
Reminds me everyone likes imported or foreign items, grass is greener syndrome. It’s like when I was a kid we always liked Heineken beer but after traveling to Europe it was tremendously popular for the locals to drink Bud Light at the time.

Shinki must be great horsehide because respected lounge members with 50 jackets in their closet clearly know what they are talking about but still makes me wonder what other hides out there that are not really talked about. I will soon have a Shinki but also hope to own something in black CXL one day because I like the soft aging effects where the pigment doesn’t chip like on my boots.

Maryam horsehide is another thicker leather (1.5mm) I’ve seen on Taobao on the more premium offerings.​

Funny you should say this. In 2019 we had a stand at the Clutch show in Yokohama , one of the exhibitors was Shinki , on the stand one of their representatives was proudly wearing his Aero Half belt in Cordovan Chromexcel. He also visited our stand on day 2 and purchsed him self a second Aero also in Chromexcel. So that says something in itself.

 

[Canuck Panda]

What color tumbled SH do you have on order? I’m looking at possibly using black tumbled cxl SH for my next jacket.

brown SH tumbled. I saw it on their instagram post.

 

[Canuck Panda]

All this CXL talk makes me think of a couple Japanese articles where they love the quality of CXL and thought that Shinki horsehide was inferior (before I get yelled at, this was just two reviews so it means nothing) but I just chuckled because over here in the west we can’t get enough of Shinki.
Reminds me everyone likes imported or foreign items, grass is greener syndrome. It’s like when I was a kid we always liked Heineken beer but after traveling to Europe it was tremendously popular for the locals to drink Bud Light at the time.

Shinki must be great horsehide because respected lounge members with 50 jackets in their closet clearly know what they are talking about but still makes me wonder what other hides out there that are not really talked about. I will soon have a Shinki but also hope to own something in black CXL one day because I like the soft aging effects where the pigment doesn’t chip like on my boots.

Maryam horsehide is another thicker leather (1.5mm) I’ve seen on Taobao on the more premium offerings.​

Warsteiner! With Mcdee meal.

Every tannery makes awesome stuff every now and then. And some meh stuff too. Like Horween, I believe Shinki's main business or the money maker are the shells. Smaller square footage much higher dollars.

Shinki is very good at even graining. No surprise after wear. At least my RC jackets are built like this. This lead me to suspect that they tumble the hide before cutting so they can be more selective, almost fashion like. And explains why their 1.4mm hides feel soft when new. But most other Shinki out there are gonna be the 1.1mm (plus or minus 0.1mm) versions. The only thick Shinki I have is the RC one, and it looks to be combi tanned.

Horween CXL however, will give you a deep rich finish that I've yet to find anywhere. It changes with lighting. They have very skilled spray booth guys there at Horween. Artisan levels. The heavy weight CXL (FQHH or SH) works better in warmer climates, but the median weight CXL FQHH is a game changer. Worked around 3 Celcius last week for me. No warm up no stiff just wear and go.

I am very biased on CXL. The first time I opened up the box and smelled and touched my first CXL jacket was one of the most enjoyable (purchase stuff wise) moment. Been trying to chase that high ever since.

 

[Aloysius]

Every tannery makes awesome stuff every now and then. And some meh stuff too. Like Horween, I believe Shinki's main business or the money maker are the shells. Smaller square footage much higher dollars.

No, Shinki's shell is a low end product sold to make bags for schoolchildren in Japan. It might be a volume seller but it's not expensive–in contrast to Horween's, which is a high end product. About 15 years ago a lot of those cheap 'premium' Spanish shoe brands started making shoes with Shinki shell as a cheap competitor to Horween shell shoes but it fell flat because the quality was just too poor. You can read contemporaneous posts on Styleforum about it.

More recently, some Western-targeting workwear brands will make expensive shoes using Shinki shell but this is purely because they know their market has a cult feeling about "Shinki", not because it's a high end shell. And it's a nice margin for the shoemaker! (Shinki horsebutt, however, is very high quality.)

Shinki is very good at even graining. No surprise after wear. At least my RC jackets are built like this. This lead me to suspect that they tumble the hide before cutting so they can be more selective, almost fashion like. And explains why their 1.4mm hides feel soft when new. But most other Shinki out there are gonna be the 1.1mm (plus or minus 0.1mm) versions. The only thick Shinki I have is the RC one, and it looks to be combi tanned.

Are you sure your RC jacket is Shinki? I can't seem to find who sells chrome-tanned and combination-tanned Shinki horsehide–but I would far prefer it to the veg tan stuff. I know there are some combination-tanned RMC jackets, but I don't know if that's combination-tanned Shinki or some other hide like CXL.

I keep thinking that a few of us who like/prefer chrome tan should put in a request with Greg to order some chrome or combi hides with his next batch from Shinki that he can consider pre-paid/claimed because we'll want our jackets with it. (So that removes his risk of an extra leather sitting around unused.)

 

[Canuck Panda]

No, Shinki's shell is a low end product sold to make bags for schoolchildren in Japan. It might be a volume seller but it's not expensive–in contrast to Horween's, which is a high end product. About 15 years ago a lot of those cheap 'premium' Spanish shoe brands started making shoes with Shinki shell as a cheap competitor to Horween shell shoes but it fell flat because the quality was just too poor. You can read contemporaneous posts on Styleforum about it.

More recently, some Western-targeting workwear brands will make expensive shoes using Shinki shell but this is purely because they know their market has a cult feeling about "Shinki", not because it's a high end shell. And it's a nice margin for the shoemaker! (Shinki horsebutt, however, is very high quality.)



Are you sure your RC jacket is Shinki? I can't seem to find who sells chrome-tanned and combination-tanned Shinki horsehide–but I would far prefer it to the veg tan stuff. I know there are some combination-tanned RMC jackets, but I don't know if that's combination-tanned Shinki or some other hide like CXL.

I keep thinking that a few of us who like/prefer chrome tan should put in a request with Greg to order some chrome or combi hides with his next batch from Shinki that he can consider pre-paid/claimed because we'll want our jackets with it. (So that removes his risk of an extra leather sitting around unused.)

Shinki to me is like a Japan version of Horween, they do wet blue (chrome)

wet white (chestnut chrome free synthetic heat tolerant environmental friendly) Horween was already doing this when I researched them a few years ago

and of course the veg tan everyone is familiar with

I believe the "oil tanned" is combi tanned with heavy veg retan. Could be white base or blue base, that I am not sure which is which. The veg retan would turn the base to that teacore color anyways. But still retain the high heat tolerance of the wet blue or wet white.

However I am still CXL crazy fan, all shapes and sizes. Thin CXL can match Shinki's pliability. Get a sample you will see. No warm up needed like the Shinki, but deeper richer colors.

BTW, anyone know if there is any relation between Shinki and Nitta? Shinki's owner family name is Nitta...

GREETING | 馬革専業タンナー 新喜皮革｜コードバン・ホースハイド・馬革

日頃から私共の馬革を御贔屓くださり、 心より御礼申し上げます。有限会社新喜皮革は創業1951年以来、日々技術の研鑽を積み重ね馬革の製造を一筋に手掛けてきたタンナーです。これまで多くの方々の意見を賜り、試行錯誤を繰り返し、皆様へ最高級のコードバンとホースハイドを供給するべく社員一同一生懸命製造に勤しんでおります。

shinki-hikaku.jp

 

[Damon141]

I've only had a Shinki jacket, but I have to say that I don't prefer this leather over the others. Nice, but one of many for me. If I had to choose just one, it would probably be CXL.

Since I had preordered the Field Leather which seemed value in Shinki, that is one of the factors to ordering the Kensington in steerhide. Of course it let me buy a Himel for a bit less and if he had CXL I would have chosen that. Only afterwards did I notice he had another Horween Leather he was using on that Beck 333 he recently revealed on YouTube. I’m not sure if it is a version of CXL.

I think I will try in time a Highwayman or Original Hercules in CXL from Aero because I really do like the product in boots and belts.

This is the old Heineken brewery in my hometown. Over here Heineken is considered non-premium.

View attachment 467093


Of course Shinki is only the name of the tannery. They produce a variety of leathers, some nice some not so nice.

The black swatches on the right are Shinki horsehide. They all came from the same tannery yet they're totally different leathers. Therefore saying "Shinki leather has this or that quality" is total nonsenses.

The swatch on the left is 'Italian horsehide' as used by Thedi leathers. Nicer than most of the Shinki leathers I've handled.

View attachment 467094

So funny, we thought we were so fancy drinking Heineken . Like it was a fine champagne.
Yes I should have made myself more clear on the Shinki because I did learn that from you guys that Shinki tannery will basically make anything according to request, like the deerskin Flat Head uses.
I remember the Himel pigment Shinki I had for a brief time was surprisingly thin compared to the Schott jackets I was used to. I can’t wait to see what Greg’s Shinki feels like. I know I will do one in Pigment and I’m still trying to decide if the other will be full aniline or the black pony.
If I’m lucky enough to try a Thedi one day, I’m leaning towards the Bruciato but also would not mind a high quality Goat Skin.

Warsteiner! With Mcdee meal.

Every tannery makes awesome stuff every now and then. And some meh stuff too. Like Horween, I believe Shinki's main business or the money maker are the shells. Smaller square footage much higher dollars.

Shinki is very good at even graining. No surprise after wear. At least my RC jackets are built like this. This lead me to suspect that they tumble the hide before cutting so they can be more selective, almost fashion like. And explains why their 1.4mm hides feel soft when new. But most other Shinki out there are gonna be the 1.1mm (plus or minus 0.1mm) versions. The only thick Shinki I have is the RC one, and it looks to be combi tanned.

View attachment 467206

Horween CXL however, will give you a deep rich finish that I've yet to find anywhere. It changes with lighting. They have very skilled spray booth guys there at Horween. Artisan levels. The heavy weight CXL (FQHH or SH) works better in warmer climates, but the median weight CXL FQHH is a game changer. Worked around 3 Celcius last week for me. No warm up no stiff just wear and go.

I am very biased on CXL. The first time I opened up the box and smelled and touched my first CXL jacket was one of the most enjoyable (purchase stuff wise) moment. Been trying to chase that high ever since.

It’s funny I have always wondered if Freewheelers had a tumbling process like Thedi, I wish I could find the blog. It was in Japanese or Korean but it mentions that the Freewheelers Shinki is actually a combination tanned leather. I wondered if that was true. It would explain why everyone says it is different than other Japanese brands.
Toys McCoy uses a combination tanned horsehide but it’s never mentioned as Shinki but I’ve read reviews where users claim it was generally thicker than average and the pigment was slower wearing. Sadly you don’t see much of that brand here in the west.
Now with the exchange rate with Japan, Rainbow Country and Toys McCoy are barely more than an Aero in some models.

 

[Damon141]

I keep thinking that a few of us who like/prefer chrome tan should put in a request with Greg to order some chrome or combi hides with his next batch from Shinki that he can consider pre-paid/claimed because we'll want our jackets with it. (So that removes his risk of an extra leather sitting around unused.)

I would surely try a combination tanned Shinki from Greg if I had the opportunity. 1 pigment and the other Shinki CXL.
I guess if he just had enough requests like the Navy Blue Shinki he brought back, and the Brown pony he had a hard time matching. Atleast the combination tanned Shinki in black shouldn’t cause the problems of the brown which imagine causes more waste due to color differences.

 

[JMax]

Heineken is considered premium in the US? By Chili’s or Texas Roadhouse maybe.

 

[Damon141]

Heineken is considered premium in the US? By Chili’s or Texas Roadhouse maybe.

Oh no Ofcourse not lol, I was saying it in a jokingly way. This was when I was a kid in college, early 2000’s when people were drinking natural ice and Busch beers, so in our young minds it was premium at the time. It got out of context but I was basically just referring to the grass is greener analogy comparing foreign beers to domestic like foreign leather to domestic.