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Current State of Black Tie Attire?
- Thread starter MondoFW
- Start date
Zoukatron
One of the Regulars
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- London, UK
I think the important thing with black tie is to actually do it as often as you can. Perfection comes (if at all) at the end of a long road.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tie This speaks volumes regarding black tie dress code
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Zoukatron
One of the Regulars
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One of the important things about black tie events is that, generally speaking, they are not compulsory to attend. Most events that do specify black tie, in my experience at least, have little issue letting people in wearing a dark lounge suit and neck tie because the organisers recognise that most people don't own a dinner suit, and it's always nicer for someone to turn up in a nice lounge suit that they keep for funerals, weddings etc. than a cheap rental dinner suit.
Edward
Bartender
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Sure, I get your point about subcultures; what I meant was that this isn't a new phenomenon, though in the past it was probably more class-based than interest-group / lifestyle based. Nowadays when it's really not hard to put together a formal outfit (I recently assembled an evening Highland Dress outfit for less than the price of two one-evening hires), it certainly is much more a case of choice.
Edward
Bartender
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The list goes on, but my main take away was that tattoos that may seem hip and edgy at a night club look absolutely atrocious with a formal ball gown!
I consider it largely a matter of personal taste; I rather enjoy such a juxtaposition, myself.
Zoukatron
One of the Regulars
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- London, UK
I have a friend who recently quit the architecture game to teach tango professionally. She recently got a tattoo of a flower (I want to say a rose, but my memory may fail me) - it looks like a water painting, rather than your typical tattoo, and looks amazing with the dresses she dances in.
Canadian
One of the Regulars
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- Alberta, Canada
I'm a sitting master in the Freemasons, I wear a black tie rig at least twice a month, more if I'm visiting a lot of other lodges. I am probably the only one in the room to do such on a regular basis. In Scottish Rite Masonry, we are supposed to wear tuxedoes, but some of the guys are well, "fashion forward", or they can't be bothered to purchase a tuxedo, worn about 10 times a year. One of the members is a respected brain surgeon who wears a navy suit, and nobody wants to correct him, as with all black tie events, it's better to show up in your best suit than it is to wear a very cheap tuxedo.
Now, there is a certain idea that a black tie rig is class defined. This would imply that he lower classes cannot dress well. I think instead of class (which is now, mostly based on money not parentage) it is modeling. We dress like our role models. People who were kids in the 60s might have Sean Connery as James Bond as a model. Kids born twenty years ago, maybe might have popular TV characters as role models or other people like parents, brothers, uncles and grandfathers. I know I like to put on a suit like many of my favorite TV characters, and I've grown to have a fondness for double-breasted suits, despite having worn out many over the years. So basically, if you grow up with role models who wear black tie, you will want to wear nice black tie clothing. If your father wears short sleeved sports shirts and jeans to work, well, you'll be likely to not have the same respect for black tie.
Of course, parentage and class does have something to do with the importance one places on black tie, or even a lounge suit. When I was in grade 7, I was asked by my Dad if it was time to start wearing a jacket and tie. I told him no, but three years later I was wearing a necktie and white shirt almost every day. Over time I was encouraged to start wearing black tie when I can. Saying that, when I wore a lounge suit to class at university, I had people asking, "Why the tux"?
Of course, I was also taught by my grandfather that a young man does not wear a suit if windbreakers and jeans are the local "uniform" and a boy should wear long pants when his friends start to do such. Black tie is the same thing, if your friends are wearing it, you have a better chance of doing so, and doing so correctly.
As for the modern era? I'd rather see a man in a nice suit than a hired cheap rig.
C.
Now, there is a certain idea that a black tie rig is class defined. This would imply that he lower classes cannot dress well. I think instead of class (which is now, mostly based on money not parentage) it is modeling. We dress like our role models. People who were kids in the 60s might have Sean Connery as James Bond as a model. Kids born twenty years ago, maybe might have popular TV characters as role models or other people like parents, brothers, uncles and grandfathers. I know I like to put on a suit like many of my favorite TV characters, and I've grown to have a fondness for double-breasted suits, despite having worn out many over the years. So basically, if you grow up with role models who wear black tie, you will want to wear nice black tie clothing. If your father wears short sleeved sports shirts and jeans to work, well, you'll be likely to not have the same respect for black tie.
Of course, parentage and class does have something to do with the importance one places on black tie, or even a lounge suit. When I was in grade 7, I was asked by my Dad if it was time to start wearing a jacket and tie. I told him no, but three years later I was wearing a necktie and white shirt almost every day. Over time I was encouraged to start wearing black tie when I can. Saying that, when I wore a lounge suit to class at university, I had people asking, "Why the tux"?
Of course, I was also taught by my grandfather that a young man does not wear a suit if windbreakers and jeans are the local "uniform" and a boy should wear long pants when his friends start to do such. Black tie is the same thing, if your friends are wearing it, you have a better chance of doing so, and doing so correctly.
As for the modern era? I'd rather see a man in a nice suit than a hired cheap rig.
C.
Well now, interesting reads here of different accounts of dress. My Husband is the only Man I have ever known to have owned more than one tux, including tails and white dinner jackets, long before I met him. His take on being dresses most likely comes from being raised on a higher social level back in the 1950's, and his Father had already been buying him suits since the age of 3 years old. A trip down Woodward Ave., to one of the many stores that catered to both Men's and Young Boys suits were abundant, as were many extraordinary shoe stores that offered a bit more of a higher class of made to order shoes.
His family lived in a upper class area, had many formal social affairs to attend on a regular basis, and later in life one of my Husband's early employers happened to be a apparel store in an "up town" location for about a year.
Within his normal going out and about wearing a suit was almost always standard practice and many times wearing black tie for him and me wearing a fairly formal dress to go to the Casino was common. We loved to be well dressed and share the look with and for each other. My Husband is fussy about what shirts you can wear and prefers a well pressed and starched "bib" that attaches to a shirt with a attached wing collar if it is black or white tie. Black tie is all black and white, nothing else to disturb the contrast, and formal evening/opera pumps are included. He may break one rule and wear a Fedora rather than a proper Top Hat, but then it will be one of his black ones an only if we are out in some place like the Casino. If we attended a function that is required black tie, no hat at all is his norm. For white tie, tails and the similar shirt with the addition of the proper waistcoat is a must. NO cummerbund for white tie, only black tie or white/ivory dinner jacket with formal tux black pants and evening shoes.
His family lived in a upper class area, had many formal social affairs to attend on a regular basis, and later in life one of my Husband's early employers happened to be a apparel store in an "up town" location for about a year.
Within his normal going out and about wearing a suit was almost always standard practice and many times wearing black tie for him and me wearing a fairly formal dress to go to the Casino was common. We loved to be well dressed and share the look with and for each other. My Husband is fussy about what shirts you can wear and prefers a well pressed and starched "bib" that attaches to a shirt with a attached wing collar if it is black or white tie. Black tie is all black and white, nothing else to disturb the contrast, and formal evening/opera pumps are included. He may break one rule and wear a Fedora rather than a proper Top Hat, but then it will be one of his black ones an only if we are out in some place like the Casino. If we attended a function that is required black tie, no hat at all is his norm. For white tie, tails and the similar shirt with the addition of the proper waistcoat is a must. NO cummerbund for white tie, only black tie or white/ivory dinner jacket with formal tux black pants and evening shoes.
I agree also that now, more than not, we will not see anyone horse whipped for being totally out of order in what they wear to attend a event that was requesting black tie attendance. I have personally observed individuals that would show up wearing casual attire to a black tie event...they left after a few minutes as I am sure they felt like a fish out of water, but no one took up an issue to them while they were present.
MondoFW
Practically Family
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Define casual in this context.
Faux Brummell
Familiar Face
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- 64
Two quick things -
1) Thanks for starting this thread, I love black tie discussions
2) This reminds me of a party I attended a number of years ago, long before I had an interest in black tie. There were some well-known people there and I was feeling even more awkward and out of place than I usually do, which is really saying something. At that party I briefly spoke with Jackie "The Joke Man" Martling and joked about my nervousness, to which Jackie replied, "The world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes." Truer words were never spoken.
1) Thanks for starting this thread, I love black tie discussions
2) This reminds me of a party I attended a number of years ago, long before I had an interest in black tie. There were some well-known people there and I was feeling even more awkward and out of place than I usually do, which is really saying something. At that party I briefly spoke with Jackie "The Joke Man" Martling and joked about my nervousness, to which Jackie replied, "The world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes." Truer words were never spoken.
