Crush Cap question...

[Gaige]

I was just looking at the Crush Cap from flightjacket.com, and I'm curious about the colors; it's available in olive drab and tan... what's the significance between colors?

 

[eniksleestack]

I was just looking at the Crush Cap from flightjacket.com, and I'm curious about the colors; it's available in olive drab and tan... what's the significance between colors?

As with the uniforms, I believe olive drab denotes the European theater and tan is Pacific/ Tropical/ North African Theater, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Gaige]

Makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

[Dixon Cannon]

The olive/tan dichotomy..

Both OB and Khaki uniforms were available in both theatres, though the Tropical Tan was considered the cooler of the two for the PTO. There are many historically accurate photographs of USAAF personel wearing both OD and/or Khaki in the ETO. This includes combinations of OD with Khaki shirts or Tan hats with OD trousers. There seemed to be a wide latitude when it came to combinations - including shirts, ties, trousers and hats. (I will admit the only thing I've never seen, and don't expect to, is Khaki tunic over OD trousers! Not likely!)

I have photographs in my personal collection of Clark Gable wearing both OD and Khaki during his tour in the ETO.

It does seem (or, so it seems!) that the majority of PTO personel wore Tan/Khaki. I've seen fewer photographs of OD in the PTO - most probably because it was so hot and humid. I'll look again to see if I can locate a good example amongst my archives.

In the mean time you'll have to settle for yet another picture of moi, modeling the latest in Olive and Khakis fashions from 1942-1945. If you'll so indulge;

-dixon cannon

 

[PADDY]

Go on Dixon, show us a bit of your pink and greens!

Do please indulge us sir!!

 

[Mojave Jack]

More simply, the tropical weight wool or cotton khaki uniform was a summer uniform and the heavier weight shades of green were winter uniforms. Typically the local command would order the change from winter to summer uniforms sometime around April and from summer to winter uniforms somewhere around October. The commands were given latitude to authorize whatever uniforms were approriate to the climate, thus in England they were authorized pinks and greens year around, while in North Africa and the PTO they were authorized tropical wool and cotton uniforms year around.

 

[Gaige]

Great info, gentlemen. I appreciate it.

 

[Fletch]

There were also pinks drab crush caps, altho they were exceedingly rare. They would have been worn mostly with the pinks gabardine shirt, which was less popular than the OD gab and the khaki tropical. 2 billed caps, one winter and one summer, served most officers adequately.

 

[Marv]

Just to go off on a slight tangent, was there any ruling on as to whether the officer could choose to wear his SD crusher or his Garrison cap with his pink & greens or was this down to his personal choice.

 

[Mike K.]

I'd have to go back and check my officer's handbook, but I think it was personal choice. I know personally, from my brief military days, that I had a choice of visor or garrison cap for everyday wear.

 

[Hondo]

Hey Gaige, find some time and stroll down older posts/threads there's some great posts/comments on crusher caps, lots great info as well as current ones

Makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

[Gaige]

Luckily for me, I have this Fri/Sat/Sun off, so I'll do just that.

My apologies for not searching prior to posting; I've been working the last few days and posted impulsively.

 

[Hondo]

Ain't no need for "apologies" had I known a quicker link to them, it would be easier, but... any way older posts answers a wide range of questions, where to find the best or worse, 50 missions look,and care of crusher caps, good hunting

 

[Mojave Jack]

I'd have to go back and check my officer's handbook, but I think it was personal choice. I know personally, from my brief military days, that I had a choice of visor or garrison cap for everyday wear.

You're right, Mike; it was personal choice back in the day, too. A lot of guys preferred the garrison or overseas cap because it was easier to stow when you weren't wearing it. (That's the same reason the US troops adopted the side cap in WWI in preference to their campaign hats, which were a pain to carry around when you weren't wearing it.) The other side of the coin is that a garrison cap is completely useless as a hat, except to satisfy the military protocol for wearing one, and the crush cap just looked cooler. Always a tradeoff.

Headgear was sometimes specified for formations and some functions, too, to ensure uniformity, though in theater that was a fairly rare occurence.

 

[Edward]

(I will admit the only thing I've never seen, and don't expect to, is Khaki tunic over OD trousers! Not likely!)

Ha, it has happened in history, but elsewhere and earlier.... I'm sure Paddy for one is probably aware of it, but the controversial "Black and Tans" units of the Royal Irish Constabulary deployed during the 1920-21 period earned their nickname from the mix of army khaki trousers and dark green RIC tunics they typically wore owing to a shortage of matching uniform at the time. I've never seen a colour photograph of the Tans, I'm not sure if any exist, though in the old B&W shots you can clearly see the difference between the much darker tunixc and the lighter trousers. Best one I can find online - look at the guy on the right of thed shot, with his back to us:

I seem to remember that the Mike Leigh film "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" had what appeared to me to be a very authentic look to the Tans' uniforms in the sequence they appear in. If you see that, the sort of brutality that they display is reasonably accurate to what happened, though of course it must be said that as the protagonists in that film are all Republicans (and it is after all a movie and therefore creative licence comes in to play), and there were some pretty nasty things done on both sides in that period (not to mention before and since!) of Irish history. The Tans on occasion did target civilians directly and indiscriminately, which was a departure at that point, but there is no evidence whatever to indicate that this was ever sanctioned above the level of those directly involved, many of whom were very disturbed individuals who had probably seen a little too much in the trenches and couldn't adapt back to civilian life. One would hope that that transition is much better supported nowadays, though you still hear the sad stories from time to time of guys who leave the forces and end up homeless cause they find it difficult to operate on their own.


(Wikipedia has a pretty good summation of the Tans here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_tans ).

Sharp uniforms, BTW.

 

[dhermann1]

The term I recall was "Uniform of the day".
And Mojave, in marginal weather, like spring or fall, when it's maybe 50-ish, the garrison cap (aw hell, the piss cutter) gave a reasonable amount of warmth and comfort as compared to the cumbersome barracks cover. I don't know what Army protocol was, but we Marines never touched the brim of our barracks cover because it was spit shined leather, just like our shoes, which of course made them all the more of a pain. I am deeply chagrined when I see Marines of today wearing that abomination known as patent leather, shoes or covers.
Of course, like every uniform (including dress blues), the greens were once the uniform used for actual fighting. They were originally designed to be rugged, warm and durable under combat conditions.

 

[Mojave Jack]

The term I recall was "Uniform of the day".
And Mojave, in marginal weather, like spring or fall, when it's maybe 50-ish, the garrison cap (aw hell, the piss cutter) gave a reasonable amount of warmth and comfort as compared to the cumbersome barracks cover. I don't know what Army protocol was, but we Marines never touched the brim of our barracks cover because it was spit shined leather, just like our shoes, which of course made them all the more of a pain. I am deeply chagrined when I see Marines of today wearing that abomination known as patent leather, shoes or covers.
Of course, like every uniform (including dress blues), the greens were once the uniform used for actual fighting. They were originally designed to be rugged, warm and durable under combat conditions.

When I was active duty in the early 80s, we were no longer issued the barracks cover. Our mail clerk liked it, though, and wore one around, but he was constantly challenged by senior Marines who thought that it was no longer authorized. He ended up carrying a page from the current regs in his cover to show people that challenged him. I never had one while in the Marine Corps, but I took to wearing one when I went into the Air Force (and still do), but I ran into a similar problem with constantly being told it was no longer authorized (and used the same solution). I think it is becoming popular again throughout both services, though, because I am no longer the only zoomie wearing one, and I see them around 29 Palms daily.

 

[Gaige]

I was issued a barracks cover while at Parris Island.

Personal preference at this point...

Flying from Ft. Sill to Camp Lejeune after MOS School, we had a mixture of covers amongst all of us.

 

[Mojave Jack]

Ft Sill? You must be arty then, Gaige. So was I: 0847.