Crofut & Knapp Tales

[facade]

Found a whole lot about the Crofuu & Knapp to Dobbs factories/brands on a genealogy site about the Dobbs family:

http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.a...rtham.usa.states.northcarolina.counties.dobbs

Just scroll down a wee bit.

Or scroll up one post here, since Brad is the author of the post you linked...

 

[Huertecilla]

Or scroll up one post here, since Brad is the author of the post you linked...

Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry I missed that

Fáscinating read!!

Kind of left me wondering though about the original K&C brand descending to the lower branches of the tree while they had such a rock solid higher end rep. with the ´Knapp Felt´ being a definite mark of distinction. The wonders of marketing...

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry I missed that

Fáscinating read!!

Kind of left me wondering though about the original K&C brand descending to the lower branches of the tree while they had such a rock solid higher end rep. with the ´Knapp Felt´ being a definite mark of distinction. The wonders of marketing...

Thanks!

Yes, it's kind of sad that Crofut & Knapp ended up almost as an afterthought, but it was due to a couple of important factors. The first was the runaway success of Dobbs as a brand, which took away the attention from the C&K Knapp-Felt brand. The second was the acquisition of Knox & Dunlap in 1932. With the addition of Knox in particular, C&K had three higher tier lines with Knapp-Felt De Luxe, Cavanagh (since 1928), and now the addition of Knox. Cavanagh was John Cavanagh's pet project, so it was going to get all the prestige and resources the company could give it. Knox was a much older, and more well-known name than Crofut & Knapp/Knapp-Felt, so it made more sense for the company to feature it in a more prominent position within the newly created Hat Corporation of America. Something had to give, and that was the C&K/Knapp-Felt brands. Sure, they stuck around for a few more decades, but their sales were never as high as Dobbs, Knox, and Cavanagh.

Brad

 

[Huertecilla]

Yes, it's kind of sad that Crofut & Knapp ended up almost as an afterthought, but it was due to a couple of important factors. The first was the runaway success of Dobbs as a brand, which took away the attention from the C&K Knapp-Felt brand. The second was the acquisition of Knox & Dunlap in 1932. With the addition of Knox in particular, C&K had three higher tier lines with Knapp-Felt De Luxe, Cavanagh (since 1928), and now the addition of Knox. Cavanagh was John Cavanagh's pet project, so it was going to get all the prestige and resources the company could give it. Knox was a much older, and more well-known name than Crofut & Knapp/Knapp-Felt, so it made more sense for the company to feature it in a more prominent position within the newly created Hat Corporation of America. Something had to give, and that was the C&K/Knapp-Felt brands. Sure, they stuck around for a few more decades, but their sales were never as high as Dobbs, Knox, and Cavanagh.

Brad

So in a nutshell:
Dobbs was a success on the market.
Knox was the most established.
Cavanagh was a pet project of the boss.
C&K was superfluous at the top. Indeed a bit sad, not just, for the brand which gave Mr.Cavanagh the leg up.

 

[alanfgag]

Sometimes (and especially with regard to Brad's contributions) a nutshell is not needed.

 

[Huertecilla]

Sometimes (and especially with regard to Brad's contributions) a nutshell is not needed.

Good for you; it helps MÉ though.

 

[facade]

Thanks!

Yes, it's kind of sad that Crofut & Knapp ended up almost as an afterthought, but it was due to a couple of important factors. The first was the runaway success of Dobbs as a brand, which took away the attention from the C&K Knapp-Felt brand. The second was the acquisition of Knox & Dunlap in 1932. With the addition of Knox in particular, C&K had three higher tier lines with Knapp-Felt De Luxe, Cavanagh (since 1928), and now the addition of Knox. Cavanagh was John Cavanagh's pet project, so it was going to get all the prestige and resources the company could give it. Knox was a much older, and more well-known name than Crofut & Knapp/Knapp-Felt, so it made more sense for the company to feature it in a more prominent position within the newly created Hat Corporation of America. Something had to give, and that was the C&K/Knapp-Felt brands. Sure, they stuck around for a few more decades, but their sales were never as high as Dobbs, Knox, and Cavanagh.

Brad

I would suggest a big factor in these decisions is the legacy attached to the name.

When the company is controlled by the founder/family, then they fight tooth and nail to keep the name & company alive. Once control is transferred outside the family, then the name becomes less important. The new leaders have no vested interest in promoting the legacy of a name that is not their own. Eventually they re-brand to promote their own legacy (Cavanagh) or sell out to line their own pockets (Knox & Dunlap). At that point the former name is just a commodity to be bought and sold. C&K being largely worthless in this regard and Stetson being the most valued.

Also I think that this played a large part in the rather clunky Knapp-Felt name. If they went with the much cleaner Knapp Hats, they would essentially be removing the C from C&K. By K taking 'ownership' of only the felt rather than the hats, they remained C&K.

 

[Huertecilla]

However logical, understandable etc. it still is sad when the foundation, the heritage gets shoved aside. It is also in a way not making use of a heritage which cán be a very big thing.
Anyway, it is the way it is.

 

[Purplesage]

Stingy brim Crofut & Knapp

Not sure of the age on this one but I believe it is probably a late 50s or 60s hat! Brad would probably know. Not sure when C&K went out of business. Hat is for sale and in excellent condition.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141249292180?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

 

[Brad Bowers]

Knapp-Felt 1926-1927 Catalog

 

[Brad Bowers]

Since these were halftone images, which don't scan well at all, I tweaked them with Photoshop to try to improve them from my original scan. I'm no expert with Photoshop though, so I know they could be better.

Enjoy!

Brad

 

[splintercellsz]

My initials on the replacement sweatband.

 

[Rogera]

Very nice Justin!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Did you keep the original sweatband?

Brad

 

[splintercellsz]

Didn't have one to my knowledge

 

[Brad Bowers]

To go along with your Paul T. Carroll, here is another house-branded hat by C&K, this one a mid- to late-1930s Derby for Matthess in Hollywood.











Coming up next: A very special C&K Knapp-Felt Derby!

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

1909 - 1914 Knapp-Felt Derby

This is a recent addition to my collection, and a very special one. It's a Crofut & Knapp Knapp-Felt Derby sold from the Dobbs & Co. store at 242 Park Avenue, and clearly shows that Dobbs & Co. started out as the retail arm of Crofut & Knapp, long before branching out into the more-ambitious, department-store-style version of Dobbs & Co. that brought about its bankruptcy in 1931. And, of course, long before Dobbs Fifth Avenue hats overshadowed their progenitor. It's a thicker felt, much firmer than the lighter Derbies more popular in the 1920s and 1930s, and has a round ventilation pattern in the top of the crown. Nicely pebbled sweatband typical of the era. While Dobbs & Co. opened in September 1908 at 242 Fifth Avenue, this Derby can't be earlier than early-1909 due to lack of a Union label.





The Dobbs & Co. crest is the same one as in my Dobbs top hat from 1908 - 1914. What we think of as the standard Dobbs Fifth Avenue crest isn't around yet. I don't have any examples, nor do I remember seeing any, from the 1915-1917 period with the 244 Fifth Avenue address change, so I don't know if the standard crest was around then, or not until 1917 and the addition of 620 Fifth Avenue.



The Style label was originally separate, but at some point it became incorporated into the primary factory label as the "Duplicate" number, or reorder number. I haven't narrowed down when that change happened.


My next goals are to find Dobbs Derbies from 242 Fifth Avenue and from 244 Fifth Avenue, the latter being a priority.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

Congratulations Brad!

 

[hatsRme]

Yes, congrats, sir! Spectacular find!

 

[splintercellsz]

Very nice finds!!