Crashing the Gate

[Miss Neecerie]

This is one of the most inane statements I have ever read. The prices would undoubtedly go up Mr. Noodles. Ya see if everyone had that attitude the business concern would have to raise prices to compensate for your kind. shakeshead

and this same principle applies to events in that the event throwers -do- indeed charge more, knowing they have crashers..

I can hear now...(and this isnt too far off reality)... "But they charge so much that we don't wish to pay it...so surely just me sneaking in.....they wont care so much since they make money on everyone else.

The idea that events are expensive. Why yes they are...but if I and the other attendees can save up to go to these... then so can others. And when I can't afford something...I do not go. Its an -insult- to those who have saved up to 'steal entry'.

 

[Lorrel Mae]

Lorrel Mae. Welcome to the FL.

Will you be my new BFF. The most honest statement I have read this year. lol :eusa_clap

Thank you! Sure I'll be your BFF!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

fftopic:

All "lifestyles" are pompous, in my opinion. Everyone gets caught up in their own kind of "status".

Welcome to the FL. What do you mean??

 

[Foofoogal]

BTW Lorrel. On your Etsy shop you can put a link in your shop to your other shop. Nice stuff.

 

[SGT Rocket]

I'm a little naive

I don't shoplift, but have no problem at all with the idea of stealing from certain chains down here. Monopolies and record profits; and a garuntee that those prices would not go down if shoplifting took a smaller than forecast bite out of said profits.

I may be a little naive, but stealing from anyone or organization is wrong.

 

[SGT Rocket]

status and stuff

fftopic:

All "lifestyles" are pompous, in my opinion. Everyone gets caught up in their own kind of "status".

I think I see what you mean by people getting caught up in their own kind of status. Like, in high-school, I had a red 1968 Mustang that was awesome. It was a status symbol for me, plus super fun to drive!

Now, my brother, he was all about wearing those Polo Oxford shirts. That was a status symbol for his group, I guess.

Now, perhaps the people who choose a lifestyle of dumpster diving, crashing gates, and eating wine and cheese at an art house with no intention to buy art is a symbol of status for them.

However, I don't think washing my car, nor my brother wearing his polo shirts effected people directly as people crashing an event or an art house. The negative effects of crashing crashing an event are well documented above. The art house too, is trying to bring people in to see/buy art. It's how some people support themselves. So when someone comes in and ruins the experience for a potential buyer, that buyer may not return and the art house, and the art house has lost a potential customer.

So the Freegan thing has a much more direct effect on people's lives than me washing my car and my brother wearing a Polo shirt. Or, wearing a nice hat or something. Plus, with the Freegan's handing out deodorant and whatnot, they are actively trying to make fun of me. And, I don't think that's very nice.

Also, it seems like going to a concert, a dance, an art house is a service that is an experience, not an object. As an experience, it is "bought and consumed" at the same time. You can't bring it out later and enjoy it at another time because the Freegans have already destroyed your experience. It's like having your parents walk in on you with your first kiss or something. You can only have your first kiss once. It's not like it's a video game (an object and experience to some extent) that you can pause, pick up your room, then get back too and it's all good. An experience is instantaneously perishable; unless of course you get PTSD from it or something.

 

[Lorrel Mae]

SlyGI: My comment had little to do with gate crashing. It had more to do with individuals looking down their nose at other individuals for not being a "true": hippie, goth, punk, fashionista, etc.

Carlisle Blues: ^That's what I meant. ^

Foofoogal: I'll link them up! Thank you!!

Also, a true freegan would not crash an event, as it would be morally apathetic. According to Wikipedia. lol

And just to stay on topic, I wouldn't gate crash, and I think people that do deserve to be put out.



Sandi

 

[tonyb]

I guess I gotta get out more. I didn't realize there was so much of this gate-crashing thing going on. But apparently it does, if all the posts this thread has generated is a reliable indicator.

Honest-to-goodness fully grown people behave this way? I mean, like over 25, say? And they do it regularly?

Sheesh! Is anyone actually arguing that such behavior isn't fundamentally dishonest? It's the sort of thing I can understand (if not condone) in youngsters, who may not (or may) have the price of admission, and who may (or may not) have parents who make lousy role models, and who, no matter any of that, operate in an immature fashion, which I can only hope they soon outgrow, for their sake and ours.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If you saw a friend stealing, you would stop them?

No, you make out a shopping list.

 

[Charlie Noodles]

Then why don't you shoplift?

It's not worth being caught.

This is one of the most inane statements I have ever read. The prices would undoubtedly go up Mr. Noodles. Ya see if everyone had that attitude the business concern would have to raise prices to compensate for your kind. shakeshead

My kind is the kind that pays for shoplifters and pays their way at an event. I don't take part in it myself.

There will never be a situation where "everyone" decides to shoplift. In the mean time I see certain companies doing an excellent job of narrowing people's choices of where to shop, pushing up prices because they can, replacing their workers with machines because they can. Replacing domestically produced products with store-owned brands because they can.

This would not stop if the shoplifters did. They are a business and will, of course, seek greater profits. They won't try to do right by me if I do right by them; they will take just as much of my money as they can. While actively trying to eliminate my choice to shop elsewhere.

I know that if I, personally, took an item; a percentage of what I have paid for over the years has already allowed for several items to go missing without hurting the store; even if no one took anything.

Please do not extend my views to gatecrashing or robbing events/stores that are hurting for the money. I am not trying to put forward the idea that stealing is "right" either and by no means do I want to offend the good people of the lounge. I do also accept that my views are probably quite juvenile, but my experience so far has lead me to them.

 

[get_atomized]

I know folks who do crash private or paid events, although none regularly, and sometimes we have been asked to leave. Sometimes, though, we have been invited to stay (we've never lied about whether we're supposed to be there or not) and been offered wine and food anyway. I guess they can just tell by looking at us that we are the kind of people who already live off their small change and pick through their garbage anyhow (don't worry I'm not reading your mail) and sometimes they don't mind our presence. In any case, it's probably a bummer to show up at these events expecting to socialize only with folks who can afford it and have your evening blighted by colourful characters. In all likelihood, we'll never be able to dish out $150 a head for a wine and cheese benefit (which sometimes support programs made to assist this demographic of dehoused and low/no income youth), and it breaks the monotony of subsisting on welfare. It just seems like scraps to us, we already live off of human waste, and we are about as shameless about it as dungbeetles. I think that's why you sometimes get crashers who are so obviously out-of-place in a high class event. Literally we are just bums looking for a hand-out

 

[Paisley]

[I don't shoplift because] it's not worth being caught.

Again, price affects behavior.

(Of course, in the case of gate crashing, too high a price should lead to staying away, not sneaking in.)

 

[Paisley]

I know folks who do crash private or paid events, although none regularly, and sometimes we have been asked to leave. Sometimes, though, we have been invited to stay (we've never lied about whether we're supposed to be there or not) and been offered wine and food anyway. I guess they can just tell by looking at us that we are the kind of people who already live off their small change and pick through their garbage anyhow (don't worry I'm not reading your mail) and sometimes they don't mind our presence. In any case, it's probably a bummer to show up at these events expecting to socialize only with folks who can afford it and have your evening blighted by colourful characters. In all likelihood, we'll never be able to dish out $150 a head for a wine and cheese benefit (which sometimes support programs made to assist this demographic of dehoused and low/no income youth), and it breaks the monotony of subsisting on welfare. It just seems like scraps to us, we already live off of human waste, and we are about as shameless about it as dungbeetles. I think that's why you sometimes get crashers who are so obviously out-of-place in a high class event. Literally we are just bums looking for a hand-out

Why don't you offer to volunteer at events. Someone who shows up looking and smelling nice, dances with unattached ladies, listens intently to bores, puts drunks in taxis and helps the host with odd jobs would earn his keep. Who knows--maybe it would even lead to a job.

 

[get_atomized]

The amount of time I already spend weekly volunteering at events outside of school would add up to a part-time job if it were paid work - the purpose of showing up to those social events is to socialize for an hour or two, have fun, observe short films I would never see elsewhere, that kind of thing, not to cater to the other guests. We go to free events too, whenever there is something worthwhile going on! (As for getting a job through volunteering - that's always one of the hopes behind doing unpaid work for a charitable organization, isn't it, but there are no paid jobs to be had and that's why they need volunteers. It could happen to me someday, though. I have housing where I can bathe and plenty of clothes to wear, but the obstacles that get in the way of looking and smelling nice for most of the youth I associate with are greater than you are possibly assuming... but they can and do volunteer with any number of organizations that don't expect them to dress within socially acceptable norms, much much more frequently than crashing private events.)

 

[Undertow]

It's not worth being caught.



My kind is the kind that pays for shoplifters and pays their way at an event. I don't take part in it myself.

There will never be a situation where "everyone" decides to shoplift. In the mean time I see certain companies doing an excellent job of narrowing people's choices of where to shop, pushing up prices because they can, replacing their workers with machines because they can. Replacing domestically produced products with store-owned brands because they can.

This would not stop if the shoplifters did. They are a business and will, of course, seek greater profits. They won't try to do right by me if I do right by them; they will take just as much of my money as they can. While actively trying to eliminate my choice to shop elsewhere.

I know that if I, personally, took an item; a percentage of what I have paid for over the years has already allowed for several items to go missing without hurting the store; even if no one took anything.

Please do not extend my views to gatecrashing or robbing events/stores that are hurting for the money. I am not trying to put forward the idea that stealing is "right" either and by no means do I want to offend the good people of the lounge. I do also accept that my views are probably quite juvenile, but my experience so far has lead me to them.

I don't want to get into the morals or ethics that will charge this avenue of discussion. However, I would like to add that this discussion has excellent potential for further research and opinion. I wouldn't want to hijack this thread discussion, but I don't know that the overall topic would be sustainable as a seperate OB topic.

So I will say that I'm sure there is some kind of simple algorithm which helps a corporation decide how much they make, how much they spend, how much insurance and security costs and how much they plan to lose to theft and damage. In any case, I would bet that shoplifting does affect the overall costs of items, although most likely on a more gradual scale.

On the other hand, I'm convinced, just as you are, that corporations will maximize profit as much as possible without completely trampling their consumer base.

Interesting topic, thank you.

 

[C-dot]

I am not trying to put forward the idea that stealing is "right" either and by no means do I want to offend the good people of the lounge. I do also accept that my views are probably quite juvenile, but my experience so far has lead me to them.

Reading your posts, I see that you are a good deal like my father - You will stick to your guns in any situation, while failing to realize that there is concrete evidence against you.

For example:
Tom: "Harry, the computer is broken. Each time I boot it, the blue screen comes up."
Harry: "No it isn't, Tom. I used the computer yesterday, and it was fine."
You see, in theory, the computer should work, because it was working before. But this doesn't make the computer any less broken, does it?

Back to gatecrashing.

 

[Paisley]

Somehow, this talk of profits reminds me of something economist Walter Williams once wrote. His wife said that the prices at the store were outrageous. He asked her what kind of person would pay outrageous prices.

 

[Tomasso]

Honest-to-goodness fully grown people behave this way? I mean, like over 25, say? And they do it regularly?

Probably the most infamous of this ilk is Jerry the Gate Crasher; Roger Ebert (and others) have written about him in the past with little effect on his activities but his recent bust may hamper his game.

 

[tonyb]

Probably the most infamous of this ilk is Jerry the Gate Crasher; Roger Ebert (and others) have written about him in the past with little effect on his activities but his recent bust may hamper his game.

It could be argued that this Jerry the Gate Crasher fellow engages in a form of performance art. A low form, perhaps, but still ...

He's a bit reminiscent of a character who is now all but lost to history. Rock 'n' Rollen, is what he was called. This white guy with a multi-colored afro wig and handlebar mustache had his Warholian 15 minutes back in the late 1970s or early '80s (maybe it was more like a half hour), when he would appear in front of the cameras at televised sporting events. I recall coming upon him unexpectedly while he was combing out his 'stache and adjusting his wig, gazing at his visage in the sideview mirror of a vehicle in the parking lot at the King County Multi-Purpose Stadium, aka the Kingdome (since demolished, thank God). He had a knack for positioning his bewigged self in clear view of the cameras at high-profile events. There was no apparent purpose to his appearances, other than just to be seen, although I think I recall his displaying a sign reading "John 3:16." Fame (such as it was) for its own sake, I suppose.

 

[Mojito]

I work in the arts community (at a museum) and take a dim view of gate crashers.

We work hard to create the aura of glamour around these events because we need to do so - we need to attract sponsors, to reward existing sponsors, to generate media coverage as well as to thank our supporters and staff.

The general public doesn't see what goes on behind the scenes - trying to run an expensive-looking event on a shoestring, organising everything from booze to entertainment. This isn't a freebie party for the museum and the champagne swilling set and a victimless crime - it costs us money to host, and we need to do it as an investment on our exhibitions and events. The people on our guest list are there for a reason, whether it is because they have supported us in the past, we hope they will support us in the future, or because they have worked hard for years as volunteers or staff or have made a contribution towards the exhibition or event.

And we often have to tolerate gatecrashers because our budgets also have to cover the extra security for the night, and getting even more staff in to act as chuckers-out just adds to the bill.

If you saw our external relations people - and everyone else supporting them - agonising over guest lists and trying to produce the most fantastic event on the most limited of means to support our work at the museum, I'd hope anyone with a conscience would think twice about assuming it was a lavish party that they could partake of, uninvited, in spite of contributing nothing to the event it celebrates or to the institution that hosts it.