CORRECT FIT FLIGHT JACKETS

[Seb Lucas]

I think both of Kojax's jackets fit well. Much better than the one the model is wearing.
HD

That's for sure.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Look up the G8 or Type 440 jacket sometime. It's something of the white elephant of flight jackets.

Isn't that because it is a civilian pattern pretending to have a military history?

 

[Deacon211]

Isn't that because it is a civilian pattern pretending to have a military history?

Well, that is my understanding and also my point (forgive me if I misused the metaphor).

I don't know who made the claim first, but I recall drooling over the Cockpit catalog and it's Type 440 jacket. I can't remember the verbiage, but it was definitely presented as the precursor to the M-422 with all sorts of "J Peterman Urban Sombrero" talk of biplanes and open cockpit flying, etc. It wasn't until I got on the lounge a few years ago that I came to find that all that was (well written) bunk.

I guess I think of that as misleading. If I want handwarmer pockets, even if they are ahistorical, then that's perfectly fine. But don't try to sell me on "handwarmer pockets as were often added by pilots in Rangoon". That's just disingenuous.

 

[kojax]

i like the cockpit catalog i get one every year

 

[Deacon211]

i like the cockpit catalog i get one every year View attachment 43841 View attachment 43842 View attachment 43842

Hehe, so do I...it's one of my favorite pieces of aviation fiction.

Love that vintage G-1 by the way. I actually like it even better than the "current issue" G-1s. They really did the broken in look very nicely.

 

[Ralph_Phillips]

View attachment 43817 Private pilots I've seen do not care whatsoever about fit. In fact, my theory is you're the odd man out if you wear a close-fitting jacket, or even care whatsoever about the fine-tunings of jacketing! Order your normal size in the Sporty's catalog and get to work!

Landing first pass on Catalina Island without a working tower is much more applaudable than a silly jacket!!

767 driver here, I concur.

 

[Ralph_Phillips]

One addendum to that, remember that it is a violation of protocol to fly a taildragger without a leather jacket. An A2 or G1 is mandatory in a taildragger.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

It depends how fat you are.

 

[rocketeer]

I just wondered not being in US military aviation, what would your base commander or regulations etc say if you turned up in a (lets say no patches but maybe velcro) high end(Aero, Eastman etc) repro G1 or A2 rather than the issued garment because the reproduction was a better fit?
Sorry chaps I don't know if A2s and G1s are still current issue items.

 

[Deacon211]

I just wondered not being in US military aviation, what would your base commander or regulations etc say if you turned up in a (lets say no patches but maybe velcro) high end(Aero, Eastman etc) repro G1 or A2 rather than the issued garment because the reproduction was a better fit?
Sorry chaps I don't know if A2s and G1s are still current issue items.

It really all depends, on service, base, CO, and time period.

I used to wear a G+B M-422/G-1 sort of hybrid that was decidedly different from the almost black-brown issue G-1s when I was a Training Command instructor. Nobody ever said anything about it, but I was pretty far from the flagpole. I would probably not have been able to wear it in my fleet squadron or during a (rare) inspection or formation.

But the closer that your non-issue jacket is to the issue one the less of an...um...issue it would be. I had a Cockpit G-1 back in those days as well. While you could tell it wasn't issue (since it was a much nicer jacket), it hewed so close to the spec that it likely wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.

Here are three jackets that I took a pic of awhile ago.

From Left to Right: Issued Pharr, G+B modern G-1, My hybrid G+B 422/G-1



You can see that, other than the pocket details and the better quality leather, the "current issue" G+B looks pretty much like the Pharr. This would not have been much of an issue anywhere in Marine aviation (in fact I think the Blues get custom G-1s from G+B today). My more vintage jacket is of a different shade in both collar and leather and I would have stood out amongst a sea of black/brown G-1s.

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[SteveZ]

Ok, that answers for the US NAVY issued G1s. Does the US AIR FORCE issue any leather or is it the nylon style flight jackets only ? Anybody know ? I left the AF in 80 and was aircrew and was only given the nylon jacket but I got to keep it after I left the service. Any ex AF here ? Is the A2 jacket only a personal purchase today and is it legal to wear on duty ?

 

[Technonut]

Ok, that answers for the US NAVY issued G1s. Does the US AIR FORCE issue any leather or is it the nylon style flight jackets only ? Anybody know ? I left the AF in 80 and was aircrew and was only given the nylon jacket but I got to keep it after I left the service. Any ex AF here ? Is the A2 jacket only a personal purchase today and is it legal to wear on duty ?

I'm not in the USAF, but I did find this:

http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/faq.asp#1

A-2 Flight Jacket

Q: I was a prior space and missile officer but am now a judge advocate corps officer. Can I still the A-2 flying jacket? Is the jacket only authorized for personnel previously awarded the Air Force specialty or currently in the specialty?

A: Space and Missile Officer and Enlisted. Qualified 13SX officers are authorized wear upon completion of qualification training in one of the following AFSC's 13SXA, 13SXB, 13SXC, 13SXD, 13SXE. Space Systems Operations personnel must complete qualification training and be certified as a mission ready crewmember in the 1C6XX AFSC. Reference AFI 36-2903, paragraph 8.5.2.4.

Q: I have a flyer's leather jacket from my flying time in the early 1990s. I would like to wear the jacket including a Strategic Air Command leather patch and my leather name tag, with or without rank, with civilian clothes to work. What are the rules for wear of the jacket as a historical type jacket?

A: Leather A-2 Flying Jacket. Wear Leather A-2 flying jacket with service uniform (not service dress uniform), hospital whites, or flight duty uniforms. Do not wear with civilian clothes. Reference AFI 36-2903, paragraph 9.11.13.

I'm fairly certain that the A-2 is still being issued...

 

[Treetopflyer]

I'm not in the USAF, but I did find this:

http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/faq.asp#1



I'm fairly certain that the A-2 is still being issued...

It is, just not the original designed A-2. The current issue A-2 has side entry pockets and the fit is baggier than the original.

 

[Technonut]

This vintage pic shows a comfortable fit, and looks to have flown many missions:

 

[Deacon211]

Nice pic! See, I'd actually say that was pretty uniform-like and as mine fit me...when I was a skinny lieutenant.

It's the enormous drooping, hanging past your hips look that I don't think is flattering. However, I know there are many pics of just this look, on both vintage and modern flyers. Some may have even preferred it if they intended to wear some insulation underneath in a cold cockpit.




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[SteveZ]

Glad to see your an early bird like me Deacon. I was cursed by marrying a drop dead beautiful gal that could cook ! That means my fuselage belly fuel tank is a bit larger than when I first married. If I lost some of the tank, I could probably fit into a regular size instead of an extra large and tall. I like the fit where the jacket is just at or slightly below the belt line but I need the extra tall size. My wife simply doesnt understand my love of cool looking flight jackets. ( two G1s a modern A2 and a longer G8 that isnt really a G8 )

 

[Deacon211]

It just shifts your center of gravity forward and makes you more stable, Steve.


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[BlueTrain]

My wife's first cousin was married to an Air Force 3-star general (Ray Huot) and I was fortunate enough to attend both his promotion ceremony and his retirement ceremony. They were both indoor events and relatively informal (but not casual!) and several officers there were wearing leather flying jackets. I distinctly remember not being all that interested in them. My father-in-law was there, too, and he attracted a lot of attention when the word got round that he had served in the Army Air Corps and had flown several missions from England in a B-24. There was a lone army officer there and I spent most of my time talking to him because I was in the army.

Something not mentioned in any of the threads on flying jackets, although by no means have I read them all, is how contemporary fashion influences uniforms, that is, the fit. A uniform may be issued one way but fashion demands, fashion being very demanding at times, that the fit be different and invariably tighter. It was common for OG fatigues to be tailored around the waist and sometimes even the pants legs were pegged some. Although trousers in the 1930s and 1940s (and later, because people were still wearing the same pair of pants) were decidedly roomy and quite wide, a jacket or coat was generally worn somewhat tighter and usually buttoned. Suit jackets today have the curious characteristic of being loose but still cut so that it cannot be buttoned and look right. Or maybe I'm not shopping in the right store. Anyway, a leather jacket cannot easily be modified, so you were stuck with what you were able to get, if you could get one to begin with and were able to hang onto it. My father-in-law said his leather flying jacket was stolen. That is a time-honored method of supply in the armed forces, believe it or not. At the time, meaning ten or fifteen years ago or longer, he had another one, though, which I think came from L. L. Bean. He wasn't particularly interested in correctness but he apparently thought it was a good, functional jacket for what it was intended for, which was flying. He did have a pilot's license and owned an airplane, a Mooney. In fact, when I met my wife and first visited her at their home, he had a disassembled airplane in his basement, a Culver Cadet. He was an aeronautical engineer. He saw the world as an engineer.

 

[nick123]

My dad is a regular pilot, 500 or something hours. Just got his instrument rating. We go flying every so often. He shakes his head in bewilderment at my jacket fascination, but then I see a box at the door and there's a blue Alpha CWU he's ordered. So I think I'm having SOME kind of an influence on the guy...
Airports are a hub of jacketry. Mostly cheaper stuff, but I like the care-free attitude a lot of pilots/enthusiasts seem to possess. Mostly baggy mall fits, a la Sporty's catalog photos. But they just don't care! And it's kind of cool that way.

 

[BlueTrain]

You have to remember that during the war, when pilot officers were being issued leather jackets, they were making up their own rules as they went along as to what was "correct." Whatever they did was "authentic," which is a word to be used cautiously, if at all. On the other hand, I remember reading how Amelia Earhart took some pains to make sure her flying outfit didn't look too new. Conversely, I have also read that that some college freshmen in the 1950s and early 1960s would scrub their oxford cloth shirts to achieve a frayed appearance. I understand such things can be purchased ready-frayed now.

I probably read too much and I'm ruining my eyes.