Coronavirus: What Vintage Skills Can Help Prepare for a Potential Pandemic?

[tonyb]

But wear your seatbelt anyway, eh?

A little less than 1 percent of us overall croak every year. The percentage progressively rises within the older age groups, of course.

A friend, a contemporary of mine, said she expects to take up skydiving and risky sex and other potentially deadly pastimes. No lingering in a nursing home bed for her, she says.

She says.

So far, she has yet to jump out of a plane. To the best of my knowledge, and that of her physically disabled (and medically fragile) husband, she has remained true unto him.

My guess is she will remain protective of her own life. I hope so. I like her, and I’ve already attended too many funerals.

 

[belfastboy]

A very good article in today's online mag 'The Federalist' . The Sensible Person's Guide to Staying Safe. I think it does a great job of putting the risk in the proper context as well as explains the nature of the virus. Def worth a read.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The 2009 flu pandemic or swine flu was an influenza pandemic that lasted from early 2009 to late 2010, and the second of the two pandemics involving H1N1 influenza virus, the first of them being the 1918–1920 flu pandemic, albeit in a new version. First described in April 2009, the virus was a new strain of H1N1 which resulted when a previous triple assortment of bird, swine and human flu viruses further combined with a Eurasian pig flu virus, leading to the term "swine flu." It was estimated that 10% to 20% of the then global population of around 6.8 billion, or around 700–1400 million people, contracted the illness. More in absolute terms than the 1918/1920 flu pandemic. It was estimated that there were 150,000–575,000 fatalities, a much lower case fatality rate of 0.01-0.08%

In 2009 we had all the jokes, the knee jerk reactions and the inevitable silly celebrity reactions, without these supposed pandemics, no-one would have heard of Gwyneth Paltrow. As with every other epidemic, the scaremongerers go into overdrive. More disturbingly, many deaths of natural causes get portioned to the current scare of the day, creating yet more scaremongering. I intend to go on as usual, chances are, I am far more likely to become a road casualty victim statistic, than a statistic of coronavirus.

I vividly remember the 1976 Swine Flu scare -- there were people on radio and television warning that this could be as severe as 1918, and that the virus was directly related to that one, and for months it was all you heard about. But it didn't turn out to be much of anything.

I think the reason so many people are skeptical about pandemic scares is because they've heard "Wolf!" cried so often. But when the wolf finally does show up...

And make no mistake, one of these days the wolf *will* appear. Maybe not this time, but someday our run of sevens will come to an end, and it'll be time to pay up. Nature has a way of correcting overpopulations.

 

[belfastboy]

I vividly remember the 1976 Swine Flu scare -- there were people on radio and television warning that this could be as severe as 1918, and that the virus was directly related to that one, and for months it was all you heard about. But it didn't turn out to be much of anything.

I think the reason so many people are skeptical about pandemic scares is because they've heard "Wolf!" cried so often. But when the wolf finally does show up...

And make no mistake, one of these days the wolf *will* appear. Maybe not this time, but someday our run of sevens will come to an end, and it'll be time to pay up. Nature has a way of correcting overpopulations.

One of the aspects pointed out in the Federalist is that viruses do NOT want to kill us....we after all are their hosts. This iteration is new to us so our immune systems are not good at keeping it in check and the virus multiplies quickly....in the case of the aged or infirm too quickly and it kills the host. It will take a while for us humans to develop at least some measure of immunity to this new strain in order to keep the growth in check. But the virus really does want to work with us after all if they kill us they kill the host. In the healthy it is possible that they are carrying the virus but are completely unaware as they are asymptomatic.....the perfect host!

 

[scotrace]

VINTAGE, in keeping with @PrettySquareGal 's original post:


Of the times I use public restrooms, and that's almost daily, I would say at least 60% of the men go sailing out of there, regardless of what they've just left behind, without so much as a hand rinse.

Remember the reports recently that McDonald's self serve kiosks were contaminated with human fecal matter? No kidding. Every single surface in any public space has poop on it, because see above. Wash your hands, and assume no one else does.

Wash your hands as soon as you get home, and every time you pass a sink and soap. There was a recent photo essay going around from a middle school science class that compared the germs on various surfaces after touching them to slices of bread. The only sampling that did not get swamped with bacteria was one touched by freshly washed hands--it remained fresh and uncolored. Even the hand sanitizer sample was green with gunk. The bread touched by unwashed hands was an unrecognizable glob of horror within days.


Keep up with household cleaning. Keep the sheets fresh, use layers of pillowcases and wash them often, change the bath towels out, buy a new toothbrush when you should, keep the fridge cleaned of escaping juice and sticky bottomed jars, throw out spoiled food, wipe down kitchen and bath counters with bleach solution (or just get Clorox sanitizing wipes), wash kitchen linens often, attend to the litter box daily, open the windows anytime the temps allow.

Skip handshaking in church or elsewhere. Sneeze and cough into your elbow.

If you feel a sore throat or cough coming on, rush blood and antibodies to the area by gargling with saline solution. I don't know how vintage the Neti Pot is, but that sucker is a miracle worker in flushing thick snot out of your sinuses so you can breathe for a bit.

I've never believed in the "don't touch your nose" bit. There's amble research demonstrating that your body needs to familiarize itself with the potentially harmful stuff in your environment, in order to build its immune system against them before an onslaught. So by all means, pick your nose at stop lights.

BUT WASH THOSE HANDS.

 

[scotrace]

Also, I've edited this thread a bit. Stop straying into ideological weener comparisons, and please quit popping in to pee on other peoples chair legs before indignantly huffing back out again.

 

[belfastboy]

VINTAGE, in keeping with @PrettySquareGal 's original post:


Of the times I use public restrooms, and that's almost daily, I would say at least 60% of the men go sailing out of there, regardless of what they've just left behind, without so much as a hand rinse.

Remember the reports recently that McDonald's self serve kiosks were contaminated with human fecal matter? No kidding. Every single surface in any public space has poop on it, because see above. Wash your hands, and assume no one else does.

Wash your hands as soon as you get home, and every time you pass a sink and soap. There was a recent photo essay going around from a middle school science class that compared the germs on various surfaces after touching them to slices of bread. The only sampling that did not get swamped with bacteria was one touched by freshly washed hands--it remained fresh and uncolored. Even the hand sanitizer sample was green with gunk. The bread touched by unwashed hands was an unrecognizable glob of horror within days.


Keep up with household cleaning. Keep the sheets fresh, use layers of pillowcases and wash them often, change the bath towels out, buy a new toothbrush when you should, keep the fridge cleaned of escaping juice and sticky bottomed jars, throw out spoiled food, wipe down kitchen and bath counters with bleach solution (or just get Clorox sanitizing wipes), wash kitchen linens often, attend to the litter box daily, open the windows anytime the temps allow.

Skip handshaking in church or elsewhere. Sneeze and cough into your elbow.

If you feel a sore throat or cough coming on, rush blood and antibodies to the area by gargling with saline solution. I don't know how vintage the Neti Pot is, but that sucker is a miracle worker in flushing thick snot out of your sinuses so you can breathe for a bit.

I've never believed in the "don't touch your nose" bit. There's amble research demonstrating that your body needs to familiarize itself with the potentially harmful stuff in your environment, in order to build its immune system against them before an onslaught. So by all means, pick your nose at stop lights.

BUT WASH THOSE HANDS.

There was a great FB post yesterday...words to the effect...."What is with all these hand washing admonishments....haven't we being washing our hands all along? Am I the only one under the assumption we be doing this all along?"

 

[MisterCairo]

 

[LuvMyMan]

VINTAGE, in keeping with @PrettySquareGal 's original post:


Of the times I use public restrooms, and that's almost daily, I would say at least 60% of the men go sailing out of there, regardless of what they've just left behind, without so much as a hand rinse.

Remember the reports recently that McDonald's self serve kiosks were contaminated with human fecal matter? No kidding. Every single surface in any public space has poop on it, because see above. Wash your hands, and assume no one else does.

Wash your hands as soon as you get home, and every time you pass a sink and soap. There was a recent photo essay going around from a middle school science class that compared the germs on various surfaces after touching them to slices of bread. The only sampling that did not get swamped with bacteria was one touched by freshly washed hands--it remained fresh and uncolored. Even the hand sanitizer sample was green with gunk. The bread touched by unwashed hands was an unrecognizable glob of horror within days.


Keep up with household cleaning. Keep the sheets fresh, use layers of pillowcases and wash them often, change the bath towels out, buy a new toothbrush when you should, keep the fridge cleaned of escaping juice and sticky bottomed jars, throw out spoiled food, wipe down kitchen and bath counters with bleach solution (or just get Clorox sanitizing wipes), wash kitchen linens often, attend to the litter box daily, open the windows anytime the temps allow.

Skip handshaking in church or elsewhere. Sneeze and cough into your elbow.

If you feel a sore throat or cough coming on, rush blood and antibodies to the area by gargling with saline solution. I don't know how vintage the Neti Pot is, but that sucker is a miracle worker in flushing thick snot out of your sinuses so you can breathe for a bit.

I've never believed in the "don't touch your nose" bit. There's amble research demonstrating that your body needs to familiarize itself with the potentially harmful stuff in your environment, in order to build its immune system against them before an onslaught. So by all means, pick your nose at stop lights.

BUT WASH THOSE HANDS.

Honestly most common sense people already keep our hands clean, washing them a lot. I do. I also will use any sanitary wipes in stores...been doing that for years, as I wipe the shopping cart clean on the handle and will wipe off any goods I buy that are in a packaged container or bottle/can. Vinegar works well to clean off germs of any other food type products and is a great way to remove germs from clothing if you use a healthy dose in the laundry when rinsing cycle clothing items..all things I do already for many many years.

I am sure most of us here will be just fine, as at least that would be my prayer for us all.

HELLO SCOTT!

 

[Woodtroll]

Any thoughts as to how much bleach to use in, say, a gallon of water?

The health care standard is that 10% bleach by volume, freshly mixed, will kill pretty much anything that can be readily killed, including viruses that live for a long time outside the body like some of the hepatitis viruses (Hep C can live up to three weeks or so outside the body on a hard surface). Stronger concentrations don't increase the effectiveness much, and can be rough on skin, respiratory tract, and many of the things you might spray it on.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^
Thanks.

And it’s another reminder of how lucky I was to dodge Hep C. For a time it seemed that half the people I knew had it. (Okay, that’s an exaggeration, but it was still a whole lotta people.)

 

[Woodtroll]

^^^^
Thanks.

You're certainly welcome. I meant to expand on the "freshly mixed" comment - unless tightly capped, the chlorine in the solution will dissipate into air fairly quickly. Fresh mixed is best if you're serious about your cleaning.

 

[Paisley]

An iodine solution was found in studies to kill most SARS and MERS (different types of coronaviruses).

 

[tonyb]

I hesitate to offer what would only be an ill-informed perspective, because about the last thing we need is misleading speculations ...

But ...

I had been thinking that there just has to be a whole lot more people infected than the confirmed cases to date, seeing how so few have been tested and how most of those infected will experience mild symptoms for which they will not seek medical attention, so they never will be counted. And then there are the infected people who may be spreading the virus before they present any symptoms at all.

A public health official in Los Angeles appeared on a cable news channel within the past hour or so, saying that we really don’t know the extent of the outbreak, largely for the reasons I cited above.

And now it turns out that among the Seattle-area fatalities attributed to the virus were some added to that roster retroactively. In other words, we didn’t know they were infected until they died from it.

 

[tonyb]

And now a friend reports that she was treated to an online ad pushing elderberry as a treatment.

I’d call it neverlivetobeelderberry.

As I’ve already said, few things outrage me quite like quacks and snake-oil peddlers.

 

[BobHufford]

And now a friend reports that she was treated to an online ad pushing elderberry as a treatment.

In wine form seems OK to me ...

 

[Hurricane Jack]

A public health official in Los Angeles appeared on a cable news channel within the past hour or so, saying that we really don’t know the extent of the outbreak, largely for the reasons I cited above.

From Monday 3/02:

Hundreds of Oregonians likely infected with coronavirus, state health officer says

"Oregon may now have 300 to 500 Oregonians who are or were unknowingly carrying the coronavirus, Dr. Dean Sidelinger, the state health officer and epidemiologist, acknowledged as officials announced the state’s third presumed coronavirus case."

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavi...th-coronavirus-state-health-officer-says.html

 

[tonyb]

From Monday 3/02:

Hundreds of Oregonians likely infected with coronavirus, state health officer says

"Oregon may now have 300 to 500 Oregonians who are or were unknowingly carrying the coronavirus, Dr. Dean Sidelinger, the state health officer and epidemiologist, acknowledged as officials announced the state’s third presumed coronavirus case."

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavi...th-coronavirus-state-health-officer-says.html

I wouldn’t be shocked to learn the number is substantially higher than that. I certainly hope that’s not the case, of course.

So much at this point is pure speculation. It’s to the credit of the people most qualified to offer an opinion that they are careful not to state more than can be known, and to make clear that speculation is just that — speculation.

However, some speculations are far better informed than others. I place much more stock in the opinions of epidemiologists than, say, just about any of us here. Indeed, some of what I read in laypersons’ online forums borders on the irresponsible. And some of it crosses over that line.

This is not to say that people should just shut the eff up, but that they remain mindful of what they not only don’t know, but can’t possibly know.

 

[vitanola]

During the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918 the spread of the virus was aided by large concentrations of men living in close, comparatively unsanitary conditions in Army camps. We don't have a situation today in the US that precisely duplicates that -- large, self-contained concentrations of people who could easily transfer a virus to other large self-contained concentrations of people who could repeat the process until it hits the epidemic stage and spreads int the general population.

To put some perspective here, over 670,000 Americans died of the Spanish flu, and most of them within the space of about six weeks during the fall of 1918. There's been nothing even approaching that in the century since. And more than a few of those people died as a direct result of the public panic -- many patients actually starved to death because they were locked in their homes and nobody dared to approach them for fear of catching the sickness themselves.

As long as we don't approach that level of panic, this situation isn't likely to even come close to what happened in 1918.

As far as practical methods of avoiding it, people used a lot of Lysol or carbolic acid to boil sheets and clothing, those being pretty much the only effective disinfectants available over the counter. Some people wore surgical masks in the street, although these were known even then to be ineffectual, and most went to great lengths to avoid physical contact with other people -- it was common to see people in the street heavily dressed, booted, hatted, and gloved so that only their eyes were visible, so afraid were they of picking up the virus. The movie industry nearly collapsed, because in many cities theatres were closed by government decree, and those that were open couldn't draw audiences. The baseball season had ended early because of the war, but most other sports events were postponed as stadiums and arenas were closed. In some cities, even churches were closed by government order.

The freak thing about the 1918 flu is that it killed mostly young adults -- largely because young adults made up the bulk of the people concentrated in those unsanitary Army camps.

Probably the most famous flu epidemic since 1918 was the Hong Kong/Asian Flu of 1968-69. About 38,000 people died in the US during that pandemic, and my mother, then a reasonably-healthy 30-year-old woman, was almost one of them. She was a heavy smoker, and her lungs were particularly vulnerable to infection because of it. Perhaps if one is a smoker today, the Coronavirus will be one more motivation to quit.

The difference between the Spanish Influenza and the ordinary flu was mode of fatality. It was the immune response which was killing, so unlike the ordinary flu (or the current COVID-19) the mortality among the weak-,the very old, the very young, and the sick, was lower than that if the general population, whilst the disease disproportionately carried away the young and strong in the prime of their lives. The response of a strong immune system resulted in an infusion reaction, which ended in the patient essentially drowning in his own body fluids. These were the reported cases of “he was well yesterday, he felt ill last night, and passed away this morning”. Malnourishment and poor living conditions gave the disease a second mode of mortality: the influenza was accompanied by a bacterial superinfection. These cases included a prolonged deathbed, the folks who “lingered for six days”.

My boss, who is a Virologist, was explaining to me that the COVID-19 virus specifically attaches to lung tissue. It does not infect mucus membranes, so at least in theory, staying well hydrated and rinsing the mouth and throat with salt water occasionally, and the odd spritz if a saline nose spray should lessen the chance of infection.

This virus worries me because of the composition of my household: a ninety-seven year old; a sixty-seven year old with COPD; a fifty-nine year old with COPD, heart disease and cirrhosis, and me, a fifty-eight year old with malignant hypertension. We are all at considerable risk from this.

 

[PrivateEye]

The person in front of me at BJ's last night spent $2,300 - he had three carts full of Lysol wipes, Kleenex anti-viral tissues, and food staples.

He said he's planning for 4-months of isolation in his own home to escape the virus.

While I think the media is partly to blame for blowing this out of proportion, at some point we have to be responsible for our own ridiculous paranoia.