Copying a Custom????

[zetwal]

KILO - what Art did with your hat from the photo alone is really quite amazing! And it really suits you well -

 

[CRH]

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No, I don't have a problem with copying an extinct hat.

Bravo :eusa_clap.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Phil, it's a good question. I commend you for even thinking about whether or not it would be proper rather than just going forward with no regard to the rights of a designer. However, I am inclined to agree with Kabuto and Jimmy, among others. There are two different issues: 1) Copyright which in this case does not apply. 2) Ethics which is a matter you'll have to settle within yourself but if the hat is simply a matter of agreeable proportions that you like and want to use as an example it's probably not any kind of a sin.

But don't be surprised if after all this soul searching you find out that your hatter is not willing to do the imitation of another custom hatter's piece. The last time I was talking in person to Mike Moore he was telling me how someone (not a Secret Hat Society member*) wanted him to copy the bow treatment Art puts on his hats, with that splash of color, and Mike firmly but politely declined. Gotta' respect him for that.

*This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds.

 

[indycop]

Looks to me like a member of the SHS (which doesn't exist), just gave the go ahead to a conspiracy of sorts , and to another member of a society that doesn't exist....Wait a minute....I didn't see a thing...

Move along, nothing to see here... lol

 

[carter]

IMHO this is a personal decision as far as ethics are concerned

I have two custom hats created by Art based on a vintage production hat, a Templeform by Style Park, that I sent him. The ribbon treatment on that hat is a bit unusual. Mine are called the Forrestor and one is rust while the other is dark green. All the proportions of these hats have been posted here on the FL.

I would hope that someone who wanted an exact reproduction (except for size) of one of these hats would go to the man who made the hat, Art Fawcett, for a reproduction. That's what I would do if I wanted a hat exactly like one made by the Major or another custom hatter. I would also hope that this would be the position taken by a custom hatter in regard to making an exact reproduction of another custom hatter's work

I will also add that the "splash of color" that Art uses in his bows is, while unique, certainly not without precedent. There was a picture posted recently of a vintage hat with a pinkish wrap on the brown bow of the hat.

 

[Tomasso]

There's no legal protection. Garment design is exempted from copyright protection. I suppose someone could try for a design patent, but I'm sure it's never happened.

Oxxford currently holds two garment design patents; for their one piece waistband and their bellows pocket.

 

[kaosharper1]

Here's William Powell as detective Philo Vance in "The Kennel Murder Case". I was watching this movie one evening and the hats just jumped out at me. So I wrote to Art Fawcett, well known here as Vintage Silhouettes, and asked if he could re-create this one. Of course there were no credits in the trailer of the movie for "hatter", and in any case, I think it must be in the public domain by now unless the original designer had copyrighted it and his or her estate has been renewing the copyright over the years.

Art agreed and this is the result:

I know that it frustrated him to no end, but he didn't have a flange that would enable him to reproduce the curl at the rear of the brim. I am very fond of the hat, but I still wish I could get that curl.

No, I don't have a problem with copying an extinct hat.

Exactly. Art made me a copy of a Johnnyphi Adam and he's now making me a "Maltese Falcon" type fedora. Copying vintage hats is not a problem. A signature hat by a living hatter would be another matter althought many designs, including Art's are inspired by vintage designs. As someone here said, there's only so much you can do with a hat.

 

[tonyb]

To expand a bit ...

Part of a custom hat's allure (to me, anyway) is that hard-to-describe vibe that mass-produced lids lack. Custom hats carry something of their makers, and in every case that's unique.

Different custom hat makers take different approaches to the task at hand, often have differing equipment and materials (ribbon, especially) and differing aesthetic sensibilities. I wouldn't attempt to replicate another hat maker's creation. I might be convinced to try something similar, but not a replica.

 

[quintox]

I lost the need to own things years ago. You may make a copy of anything I have and it would make me happy that you like it.
Life is easier and less stress this way
Kind of like: here I sit, only the mountain and I, until only the mountain remains. It all stays here

Q



....... Audaces fortunat juvat timidos que repellit .......
" Fortune favors the bold and scorns the timid "

 

[Art Fawcett]

I copy designs from the past and make that quite public with no bones Phil. Where I and many other custom hatters get queezy is to copy another contemporary's design or as Tony mentioned, signature look. I would not copy Tony's bow, HE has developed that look and I wouldn't be enhancing my own rep by copying. Yes, I've been copied and frankly, depending on HOW it's copied it can be either flattering or infuriating.
Legal? no issue ethical? it depends on the hatter's ethics. I do know that most hatters don't want to copy someone else's design( contemporary) so it comes down to "How badly do I want the work?"

 

[Akubra Man]

I have worn custom made cowboy boots by the Paul Bond Boot Co of Nogales, Arizona for the past thirty years and would have no problem with somebody having the same boot made by Paul Bond for them... and I am OK on an exact duplicate. I am OK even if the person went to another boot maker with the same design to follow... but I doubt whether another custom boot maker would be willing to do the exact copy of the Paul Bond style. Custom clothiers I have dealt with want to do the thing in their own way and I like that.

Bespoke means custom made to your specs as interpreted by an artist/craftsman. I say use the design as inspiration only and let your custom hatter make you a hat his way.