Cooper A2 - orange label - age help

[octopus_luke]

Hey folks,

I am looking to get my first A2. I just missed out on a very sweet Aero version (it went for £330, if you are wondering), and am instead looking to get something a little bit cheaper to see if it’s the right jacket for me.

So, in walks the Cooper. I was wondering if anyone had some new found comments on this jacket (photos attached), and if they could help me put a date on it? I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth the £120 ish it’ll set me back. It looks to be in pretty good condition.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Problem with Coopers is that they often fit baggy and squat. I tried a couple but the 22 inch wide shoulders (18.5 would be more period accurare for a 42) gave me the wrong idea of how an A2 could fit.

 

[danogun]

Hey folks,

I am looking to get my first A2. I just missed out on a very sweet Aero version (it went for £330, if you are wondering), and am instead looking to get something a little bit cheaper to see if it’s the right jacket for me.

So, in walks the Cooper. I was wondering if anyone had some new found comments on this jacket (photos attached), and if they could help me put a date on it? I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth the £120 ish it’ll set me back. It looks to be in pretty good condition.

These jackets were made in the 1990’s and I have seen prices for these all over the place. You can find them on ebay a plenty. I ran across one at an antique store for $25. Haven’t got to wear it, bought it this summer, but I think I will like it as a lighter early fall, early spring jacket. For some reason these jackets don’t get very good raves on FL.


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[Seb Lucas]

For some reason these jackets don’t get very good raves on FL.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The reason is self-evident. This being a classic era site, the Cooper A2's are baggy, modern versions of the originals with polyester instead of cotton and nylon instead of wool and patterns best to fit hefty or middle aged guys.

I have seen a few Coopers that fit better and it may be down to the wearer's build or a particular year/issue. I'm no jacket snob and my jackets were all cheaply acquired, for the most part. I like the idea of a $100 goatskin A2, but the shoulders being so wide, with seams hanging down my arms put me off - as it does many (but not all) here.

 

[Skyhawk]

This jacket is from 2001. It is on the white spec label.

 

[octopus_luke]

Thanks for the feedback.

It’s very challenging with these types of jackets. Here in Europe, they are a little less common. I’d like a more expected “fitted” fit.

I am kicking myself for not getting that Aero now!

 

[octopus_luke]

I’m also wondering about the sizing, in particular that 20” shoulder to shoulder stitch measurement. That sounds huge.

I am slim, wear a standard suit 38 and 32” waist. My size 38 Irvin Flying Jacket fits well, but of course you have all that shearling.

Do I need to size down?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Do you need to size down? Probably what you need to do is work out what measurements you need for a good fit. Back length, pit-to-pit, arm length, etc. 20 inches is not too bad, but still big for a size 38 which is a small size. It's probably 2.5 inches wider than you need. If you are a small thin build I wonder if a Cooper will work. If it's affordable, why not buy it and see? You can learn a lot from jackets that don't fit - and then flip the thing later.

First lesson for buying leather jackets is that the size label is pretty meaningless. 38 doesn't mean much in jackets (or suits, really). To get a good fit, you need to establish what the 38 actually means because companies do all their sizes differently.

As I have said before, depending on the maker, I wear a size 38, 40, 42, 44 and 46 in different leather jackets. All of them have pit-to-pit measurement of around 23.5 inches. So go figure.

By the way - Europe isn't the only place where it's hard to find these jackets. You almost never see A2's in Australia.

 

[HanauMan]

I agree that the Cooper A2 shoulders are wide but depending on the jacket size it shouldn't necessarily be too baggy. Leaving the shoulder issue aside (granted, a BIG issue with some folk here), the actual jacket itself is very good. The leather is great and the general features are just like the original jackets. Also, the jacket was actually used by the USAF in the 1990s. By the way, your jacket has the 'civilian' label (jacket is otherwise the same as the early issued jackets, the Velcro patch came a tad later) which doesn't denote the date. I bought my Cooper brand new in 1992 and the label is the same as yours except for the first four numbers of the CSN (mine is 8718, yours looks like 8716?). Otherwise, the GAC number is identical and the rest of the CSN numbers are the same. Perhaps this denotes your jacket is earlier than 1992?

At the end of the day the shoulder issue is purely personal; I have tried on 'authentic' narrower shouldered A2s but found them a tad constrictive. My jacket isn't baggy but has room for me to move my arms without feeling constrained. My Cooper measures a massive(!) 20 inches shoulder to shoulder, but I like it that way. As I say, its a personal thing.

Here is a fit photo. BTW, the jacket is a 42 inch chest. I'm 5'11'', 158lbs, 40" chest
Shoulder to cuff 24"
Neck to waist 25"
Shoulder to shoulder 20"
Pit to pit 22"

 

[Brettafett]

Luke. Have you seen AVI LTHR's goatskin Bronco A-2s. These are copied off an original WW2 Bronco and fit as an original would. There are a few pics and reviews on this and the other forum. I did a review below.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/avi-lthr-bronco-a-2-jacket-review-pics.92117/
If you are in Denmark, you should at least check them out, free postage, easy returns...
I normally wear a 40 and had to size up to a 42 (I wear 42 in originals, so this makes sense).
I had a couple of Coopers decades ago, but as Seb says....
Depends what you want and what you are expecting...

 

[octopus_luke]

Here is a fit photo. BTW, the jacket is a 42 inch chest. I'm 5'11'', 158lbs, 40" chest
Shoulder to cuff 24"
Neck to waist 25"
Shoulder to shoulder 20"
Pit to pit 22"

View attachment 134941

Thanks for that. This looks like a good fit to me!

I normally like a good fitted jacket and, based on your measurements, perhaps the 38 would work best for me.

 

[octopus_luke]

Luke. Have you seen AVI LTHR's goatskin Bronco A-2s.

I have indeed seen them. It's a beautiful jacket, but slightly out of my price range right now.

 

[Brettafett]

If you are looking on Ebay, see if you can find any Willis & geiger or Gibson & Barnes A-2s... Sometimes come up for a bargain and both can be decent jackets, all things considered. (I would email AVI if they have any 'sale' jackets - both the A-2 and the G-1 are on the second version, so perhaps try score a V1 for cheap!)

 

[octopus_luke]

If you are looking on Ebay, see if you can find any Willis & geiger or Gibson & Barnes A-2s... !

Thanks! I think they’re still a bit of a rarity in these parts.

I might take the punt on the initial Cooper. Hopefully I am happy with it and, if not, I guess I can always sell it. Even if Coopers aren’t your thing, it’s hard to argue with the condition on this one (if the photos are to be believed).

 

[HanauMan]

Thanks! I think they’re still a bit of a rarity in these parts.

I might take the punt on the initial Cooper. Hopefully I am happy with it and, if not, I guess I can always sell it. Even if Coopers aren’t your thing, it’s hard to argue with the condition on this one (if the photos are to be believed).

Many folk here have done the same, taken a chance on a jacket and if it doesn't fit, as you state, resell it and try again. You will learn from that experience as to what fit suits you best. On the other hand, you may wish to hold on to it if the fit isn't just right until you're a bit older and your body shape changes.

All I can say is that I've had my Cooper since 1992 and never felt the need to replace it with something more 'authentic'. The leather is great and the Coopers from that period (late 1980s - mid 1990s, before they became really baggy) are well made and with the correct fittings and design to WWII jackets (though things like the zipper is on nylon tape, not cotton, etc). However, it was a genuine USAF issue jacket and made to the specifications of the time. Also, it is a jacket proudly Made in the USA (though the leather itself came from, I gather, Pakistan). You will not be disappointed in the Cooper quality.

Would I buy a Cooper again? Yes. Would I pay £120 for one? Yes, if it is an earlier production jacket.

Here is a short clip of my jacket on Youtube:

 

[octopus_luke]

Many folk here have done the same, taken a chance on a jacket and if it doesn't fit, as you state, resell it and try again. You will learn from that experience as to what fit suits you best. On the other hand, you may wish to hold on to it if the fit isn't just right until you're a bit older and your body shape changes.

All I can say is that I've had my Cooper since 1992 and never felt the need to replace it with something more 'authentic'. The leather is great and the Coopers from that period (late 1980s - late 1990s, before they became really baggy) are well made and with the correct fittings and design to WWII jackets (though things like the zipper is on nylon tape, not cotton, etc). However, it was a genuine USAF issue jacket and made to the specifications of the time. Also, it is a jacket proudly Made in the USA (though the leather itself came from, I gather, Pakistan). You will not be disappointed in the Cooper quality.

Would I buy a Cooper again? Yes. Would I pay £120 for one? Yes, if it is an earlier production jacket.

Here is a short clip of my jacket on Youtube:

Thanks for the encouragement and video. Yours looks great! You mention yours is from the early 90s, and there’s a decade where the quality is strong there. A post above mentioned this one I have mentioned here is from 2001. Not quite sure how that is detected, but what are the significant differences between the two? Does yours jot have the side panels then?

 

[HanauMan]

No, mine doesn't have side panels. These, along with the side hand warmers and inside pocket, were added later. The early 1990s Coopers didn't have these additions and were more in line with WWII era jackets.

I know my jacket is early 1990s because I bought it in 1992. I have the same label as yours. Your jacket wasn't made in 2001 (the person who said that mistook the label for a military DSA label which has the last two digits of the year of production). Anyhow, Cooper stopped production of their jackets in the late 1990s.

 

[octopus_luke]

No, mine doesn't have side panels. These, along with the side hand warmers and inside pocket, were added later. The early 1990s Coopers didn't have these additions and were more in line with WWII era jackets.

I know my jacket is early 1990s because I bought it in 1992. I have the same label as yours. Your jacket wasn't made in 2001 (the person who said that mistook the label for a military DSA label which has the last two digits of the year of production). Anyhow, Cooper stopped production of their jackets in the late 1990s.

Here’s the back of the jacket. Can’t quite see whether it’s got those panels.

 

[Gamma68]

I have an early 1990s Cooper A-2, size 40, listed in the classifieds now if anyone is interested. Looks to be the same year of production as @HanauMan's.

 

[octopus_luke]

I have the same label as yours.

The slight difference: yours is 8718, whereas this one for auction is 8716-01-8243400.

Does anyone want to take another stab here at the age of the jacket? Is it with or without the side panels? I guess no side hand pockets is a good indication that this is one of the better Coopers, in terms of the slightly less billowy fit.

I apologise for so many questions.

/luke