Cooper A-2 question

[Boodles]

I also have a size 46 Cooper

The one I have also fits more like a 44. If I have it on and zipped I could not raise my hands high enough to touch my nose! Too much BBQ and Georgia Moon, I guess (Mr Finch). My 46 Avirex fits me much better so I really need to list the 46 Cooper in the classifieds but I would not recommend it to anyone who is really a size 45 or 46. My Cooper does not have the same lining as yours.

It's a larger size than I usually wear, I normally wear a size 42 and this is a 46 but seems more like a 44. I wish it was a smaller size, but I couldn't pass it up.

 

[Atticus Finch]

An unfortunate truth about the design of the modern A-2 is the armholes are too big and too low. I don’t know the purpose of this design element, if there was one, but it almost ruins the jacket, IMO. And of the three modern A-2 makers, Saddlery (Cooper) A-2s seem to have lowest armholes and the tightest chest areas. On the other hand, Orchard A-2s have the highest, smallest armholes. Those jackets almost fit and look like WWII A-2s. Below is an Orchard from their 1992 contract.

AF

 

[johnnyjohnny]

more

atticus, i agree that the orchard is much more a ww2 cut...it's very clean, and very squared off and trim...i think the lower arms do make a2s very 'mall jacket'-like, meaning blousy so they fit rather out of shape bodies more easily...which is what civi manufacturers are concerned with, whilst the military knows it's troops need to look sharp, and are required to be in better shape than the public at large...the orchard (branded garments) is one of the best post war

and...

What would be the main differences there? I have to admit, I'm occasionaly tempted by the idea of a Flying Tigers jacket---edward

a2s are so totally different one from the other, tho many of the current contract producers are very similar...however, the cockpit ww2 flying tigers (and now 2 others with the same pattern but different authentic patches) are amazing pieces

i'll explain the difference thus:
1. gorgeous horsehide that appears fully from the forties govt contract period, tho it may not actually conform to the exact type of horsehide used then, tho my contacts with jackie clyman and cockpit's leather master suggest the hides are authentically processed
2. most noteworthy is the pattern of the flying tiger and 2 other versions...the collar especially is an accurate replication of a 40s a2 contract style that is simply gorgeous...and the rest of the cut and pattern as well...they certainly chose the finest and most pleasing/best design pattern of the 40s contracts for their version
3. the patches are authentic, and beautifully well done, evident on all versions, but superbly noticeable on the flying tigers with it's leather blood chit on the back...check them out historically, they are correct, and while having a handcut look, are beautifully and not sloppily done in any way
4. what i respect is that cockpit does NOT try and make these 'fooler' jackets...meaning ones that try and replicate lining stamps, manufacturer tags, and those minute details...that's all fine and good, but i don't need to pay another five hundred dollars to have it virtually indistinguishable from a real period a2...which is admirable...but for slightly over $400, everything is correct, and looks great, but the extra cost of having tags and stamps matching is not thrust upon those of us who don't need that, and don't have the money for it either
5. lastly, and i think important, the horsehide is u.s., meaning the hides are from natural death horses, not horses slaughtered for meat in argentina or elsewhere, or killed for hides...this is a legal requirement in the u.s. for u.s. horsehides...important to me

hope that helps...the jacket doesn't just look great on the internet, it is a wonderful fitting historical piece that is stunning...i've had people who don't know ww2 history think it's a baseball jacket, or something else, but they are wowed by it nevertheless...and besides, i don't wear a fine watch or jacket to impress others, i do it to impress myself...others liking it is nice frosting on the cake, but totally not the reason i buy these things

 

[deanglen]

Here's my modern A-2, one with armpit extra pieces and side pieces as well, which if I'm not mistaken is referred to as the "Turkey Mod". I don't think it's a bad fit around the arms..

dean

 

[Jorgeaguilera]

Hi Atticus

I was wondering if you can help me with this.
Could you tell me if this jacket is a real issued one, please?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140582842831

Thank you very much for your time

Regards
Jorge

 

[Atticus Finch]

Hi Atticus

I was wondering if you can help me with this.
Could you tell me if this jacket is a real issued one, please?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140582842831

Thank you very much for your time

Regards
Jorge

Hi Jorge. No, that is a civilian jacket. Cooper never made any A-2s for the military under the Cooper name. Instead, they used their Saddlery brand for both of their USAF contracts. An issued Saddlery A-2 will look like this:

Still, civilian Coopers are not terrible jackets if they can be obtained for a good price. Depending on size and contition, a good price would be anything less than 50 USD, in my opinion.

AF

 

[Jorgeaguilera]

Gee Atticus thank you very much, I guess I'll take your advise and start searching an A-2 from Orchard, I have seen them before on the net, and really liked them. Do you know where I can find a new one in an affordable price size 42. By the way are they made from goatskin ?
My email is j_e_aguilera@hotmail.com (more practical for me)

Thank you very much for your time

Jorge

 

[Atticus Finch]

Jorge, I think that Orchard made the best of the '90s issued A-2s. They were constructed from thick, grainy goatskin and were cut much like the old WWII A-2s.

But....

Orchard still makes their military A-2 and, sadly, it ain't what it used to be. And to further complicate matters, they still put '80s and '90s military spec tags in their new jackets...even though they don't currently have any military contracts that I know of.

So, what I'm saying is, if you can find an original, 1992 issued Orchard A-2, by all means buy it. But most, if not all, mil-spec Orchard A-2s have 1992 spec tags, so I don't know how you'll know if its original.

AF

 

[Jorgeaguilera]

Gee Atticus thanks.... I've found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320734497606&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT
Any idea if it's an original?
One more thing, are these new Orchards still made of goatskin, too, or are they using cowhide?

Thank you for the info
Jorge

 

[Atticus Finch]

Jorge, I'm not sure. I'm a bit concerned that the ebay jacket's lining is different than that of my '92 issued Orchard. It appears to be satin or nylon. I'm at my office right now and only have this photo of the interior of my issued Orchard. I can tell you, though, my original's lining is not satin or nylon. Instead, it is something like heavy cotton oxford. Also, my issued jacket's lining is much lighter brown than the ebay jacket's lining appears to be.

But again, I'm not sure. Truthfully, I'm not sure anyone could tell the originals from the later Orchard mil-specs without seeing them in person.

AF

 

[Jorgeaguilera]

Gee Atticus, then I guess we might be talking about the new version of Orchard here, I requested more pics, but the seller doesn't have a camera available... anyway what are the differences or negative things between the 92 Orchards version (yours) and the newer Orchards (ebay).

Thank you for your patience!!!
Jorge

 

[Atticus Finch]

I don't own a new Orchard A-2, but I did buy one of their new mil-spec G-1s a couple of years ago. While my new Orchard G-1 is acceptable given the price I paid, its quality is well below that of my other vintage G-1s and is below that of Orchard's 1986 issued G-1. When I say the jacket's quality is lower, I mean:

1. The lining is much thinner than would be acceptable for an issued military jacket.
2. The stitch count is much lower than on issued jackets, that is, the stitching is quite coarse making it visible, even from a distance.
3. The pocket flaps are slightly different in size and in shape.
4. The right arm is slightly longer than the left arm.
5. It is made of cow hide…albeit nice cow hide...and not goat skin.

While I’ve never owned a new Orchard A-2, I have seen a couple. Frankly, I was disappointed in them, mainly because I think so highly of my issued Orchard. One I handled was quite stiff and appeared to be made of rather featureless cowhide (all current issue A-2s of any brand are goatskin). The other had huge pocket flaps that looked almost clownish and had contrasting stitching…which I really dislike. While I didn’t try the jackets on (they were several sizes too small) I’m guessing both may have suffered from some of the same issues as does my Orchard mil-spec G-1.

AF

 

[Jorgeaguilera]

Thank you very much Atticus.. well I guess I have to wait... Patience is the key !!! Thank you very much for your time and advices, when I got something interesting I let you know.. thanks my friend

Regards

Jorge

 

[jeepjeep13]

I just found a Cooper a2 in my size (40L) on ebay and it seems like I can get it for practically a song. I've been looking at others (Aero, US Authentic, etc) for a little while now, but think this might be a good one to "sharpen my a-2 teeth on", so to speak. I want one that has a trimmer more "WWII authentic" fit. Any thoughts on how the Cooper brand fits, lads?

 

[Brettafett]

Hi there, if you want trimmer more WW2 authentic, then look elsewhere than a Cooper.
Nice sturdy jackets though. A 40L may pass depending on your build, and for a song, why not have a go?

My first A-2 was a Cooper Commemorative Edition. I went through 3 Coopers, before moving on to my first Eastman over 10 years ago!

There will be tons of suggestions forthcoming I am sure, but if 'budget, mid-priced, WW2-a-like, trimmer and such are your buzz words, I would look at these (apologies if you have been through these already):

Cockpit (they have a number of versions), QMI.BE (a Monarch look-a-like), AVI LTHR Denmark (based on a Bronco pattern), Gibson & barnes (they also have a couple of WW2 versions), SM Wholesale had a couple of nice versions, Aerial Star (still around?), Alpha Industries, Noble House (mmmm not sure), US Authentic, Buckstarlegends, to name a few...

Obviously the main makers for WW2-repros are Eastman, Goodwear, Bill Kelso, Aeroleather (look at their SALES page), (Diamond Dave?), the Japanese guys... etc, but they are priced accordingly. Mucho dinero! You may, if you are patient and know your fit, find a bargain on this forum or on Ebay.

Good luck... and remember... POST PICTURES!

 

[Peter Mackin]

Go for it..I've got two coopers..an long with aero , eastman A2s, they wear great & you can wear the hell out of them & not worry about them...great beater jackets in my humble opinion.

 

[jeepjeep13]

Thanks guys! I chatted with the seller (who sells primarily Cooper it seems) and he claims it's a trim military cut. Would you say that's pretty accurate or is it a baggier 90s cut?

 

[Fanch]

Once upon a time I had a 44L Cooper A-2 that was a reasonably trim fit. The lining was a cotton/polyester blend as I recall. I sold it on Ebay for roughly the same as I paid. Decent jacket though on which you shouldn't lose money. Why not go for it?

 

[jeepjeep13]

Well, I ended up buying it for $80. Not sure if that's overpaying or not, but we'll see what kind of shape it's in when it arrives. Like you guys said, I can always re-sell it if I hate it. Good way to sharpen my teeth on a-2's either way.

 

[Peter Mackin]

Hope it works out for you.I got my size 44 from a guy in Asia..it was stinking of smoke & really musty...threw it in the washing machine & it worked a treat, hasn't harmed it in the slightest.really comfortable jacket & the goatskin is tough.for less than a hundred pounds it's a bargain.