Companies in US that do custom work AND use steerhide as thick as Aero??

[ButteMT61]

Please let us see pictures!Regards,Johannes

No way. You'll just tell me it's "too short" lol

 

[HoosierDaddy]

No way. You'll just tell me it's "too short" lol

Well..for gawdsakes tuck your shirttail in....put a gladface on....stand up straight..and make sure your shoes are tied....[bad]lol

 

[ButteMT61]

 

[JLStorm]

Thanks for congrats on the graduate degree. I've worked with my current company as an employee for 8 years. During the two years I contracted for them prior to that they had a hiring freeze, but after 50 - 75 inquiries regarding a full time job, I guess they got tired of listening to me, so they hired me on lol. As soon as the required time had passed I used the tuition assistance program to finish my undergrad with the goal of going right onto grad school. One of the few good decisions I've made in my life lol.


As far as good decisions go. I talked to Alan at Johnson today for around an hour. I told him what I Was looking for and at first he flat out said there is no way we can find a leather that heavy, but after talking to him for a while and proving to him that I was clinically insane regarding jacket weight, he fessed up to having a 5oz they use for a Japanese company and the motorcycle pants they make stand up on their own. He then mentioned a heavier shoe leather that Horween makes specially for him. Needless to say, I am very interested. Just as described earlier in the threads, he suggested making a mock up of the coat in canvas with the actual shearling collar attached and having me evaluate that prior to making the real thing. He is sending me some samples.

I love Aero and their customer service and support have been top notch, but I think we are growing in two separate directions. Their business model is not designed around custom jacket styles and my desire and body shape sort of require them. Johnsons on the other hand seem to thrive on customized jobs. So while I have nothing at all against Aero and nothing but great things to say about them, I think that my vision is more aligned with Alan's. It was also refreshing being able to deal with someone in a similar timezone and who basically knew everything I wanted before I said it.

I'm really was impressed by his enthusiasm and seemingly endless list of custom work he has done around the world.

As far as LW, I didn't even bother calling them. I don't think their business model lends itself well to custom orders even though their leather is renowned for its heft.

 

[Seb Lucas]

JL, just out of interest - what purpose do you have for wanting a leather that thick?

 

[Peacoat]

I don't think the leather Alan has is going to be as thick as what you want. He just built me a motorcycle jacket out of that leather (the Japanese market leather) two weeks ago. While it is a thick and heavy duty leather, the jacket only weighs about 7 to 7.5 lbs. while you are looking for around 12 lbs. For comparison, my Aero and Vanson jackets weigh in at 7 lbs., and my Fox Creek comes in at 6.5 lbs.

In my opinion it is a good weight for a heavy motorcycle jacket, and it is a tough leather to break in. After two weeks of wearing it, rolling it, kneading it, and keeping it under my mattress at night, it still stands on its own. I tried misting it, as I have done with many other jackets, but the water just beads and runs off. Turning the hose on it wouldn't do any good either; it is just too tough. I'm hoping that when cool riding weather gets here in September or October, it will be broken in and ready for the road. But it will take a lot more work; maybe more than I can give it. My Vanson took almost two years to become comfortable, and this one looks to be longer than that unless I stay with it.

Allan will probably send you two samples. The "lighter" sample is the leather used in the Japanese market and what I have. The other is thicker than that. I would want no part of it.

And I too, would like to know the answer to Seb's question.

 

[JLStorm]

JL, just out of interest - what purpose do you have for wanting a leather that thick?

I don't think the leather Alan has is going to be as thick as what you want. He just built me a motorcycle jacket out of that leather (the Japanese market leather) two weeks ago. While it is a thick and heavy duty leather, the jacket only weighs about 7 to 7.5 lbs. while you are looking for around 12 lbs. For comparison, my Aero and Vanson jackets weigh in at 7 lbs., and my Fox Creek comes in at 6.5 lbs.

In my opinion it is a good weight for a heavy motorcycle jacket, and it is a tough leather to break in. After two weeks of wearing it, rolling it, kneading it, and keeping it under my mattress at night, it still stands on its own. I tried misting it, as I have done with many other jackets, but the water just beads and runs off. Turning the hose on it wouldn't do any good either; it is just too tough. I'm hoping that when cool riding weather gets here in September or October, it will be broken in and ready for the road. But it will take a lot more work; maybe more than I can give it. My Vanson took almost two years to become comfortable, and this one looks to be longer than that unless I stay with it.

Allan will probably send you two samples. The "lighter" sample is the leather used in the Japanese market and what I have. The other is thicker than that. I would want no part of it.

And I too, would like to know the answer to Seb's question.

I also asked him to include a sample of the bison, but Im sure that is out of my price range. Its not so much the weight I am after, but the thickness and stiffness in that order. I've mentioned mm thickness to several jacket makers over the years, but oz weight seems to be the only realistic measurement that everyone trusts in, especially when comparing different leathers.

As far as the why. There are two reasons, one that is reasonable (IMO) and the other that I can't explain well.
1. I normally work from an office, but I never know when I'm going to need to hop on a plane and work onsite, or where that site may be. When I am onsite I am surrounded by a lot of metal in a very temperature controlled environment that is cold, as well as needing to be outside in around equipment in a less than ideal environment. I have ruined many pieces of clothing getting caught, scratched, or pierced by sharp metal edges, beams, bolts, etc. I also lack a bit of peripheral vision, so I have a habit of scraping against things anyway. I find that the stiffer leather doesn't get caught or snagged on things like softer leathers do, they tend to glance off. As far as the thickness, I don't mind scratches or "war wounds" on my jackets, but wholes and deep cuts are a problem for me. The thicker the leather, the less of a chance of this and the Aero leather is damn near bullet proof. This is the same reason I had my ANJ4 / B3 hybrid jacket completely overlayed in mid weight horse. I use over size collars a) because i like them, but b) as wind shields and after one saved my neck and head after a nasty fall on an ice covered slab of concrete, as well as protected my back from any bruises or strainl, I just dont have a reason to change.

Its a bit different than wearing a jacket for a motorcycle. The way I see it, protection for riding is an investment in the unlikely event you go down hard you will protect your skin by sacrificing the leather. Your banking on a risk that hopefully wont happen and the jacket is a just-in-case. Destroying the jacket is worth the cost in the event that you need its protection. Conversely, for my purposes, its almost guaranteed my jacket will encounter equipment and materials that will be hazardous to its longevity, so I want it extra tough, as I can't replace or repair it after every scar, scratch, or blemish.

2. I really love the stiff heavy feel of tank like jacket surrounding me. After two years my Aero bends much easier at the arms and where I need it to bend, but the rest is like wearing a heavy armor shell, I just like that feeling and I have no good answer as too why. I have days when i like light comfortable jackets, such as when I am driving many hours. However, I tend to just take my jacket off and throw it in the passenger seat of my truck on those days. Besides, my dog likes to rest his head on my shoulder and drool on my shearling collars if I keep it on.

So, that is my reason. Sounds sort of weird I know, but after wearing many different types of jackets and ruining a Schott leather jacket, I havent had a single issue with damaging either of my Aero's.

As far as Johnson's thickness and weight, its going to be tough to judge much based on a sample aside from the scratch and cut test. I know my Aero is over 5.5 and under 6.5 oz and it will still stand up on its own after two years of light - moderate wear, as I didnt get to go outside much last winter, since I was spending every waking hour of free time studying.

Peacoat, do you have any photos of your jacket, or any jacket with the 5 oz leather?

 

[ButteMT61]

From experience, bison is not stiff or even necessarily rugged. But like elk and deer, is beautiful and pliable right off the bat. Nice grain too. Hoping to get one in the next year or two.So, I gotta ask, why not FQHH? That suff is rugged!

 

[JLStorm]

From experience, bison is not stiff or even necessarily rugged. But like elk and deer, is beautiful and pliable right off the bat. Nice grain too. Hoping to get one in the next year or two.So, I gotta ask, why not FQHH? That suff is rugged!

FQHH is not thick enough for my liking, although it is a nice combination of weight and pliability. The biggest reason is living in an area with lots of horses, I've seen what can pass as "natural causes of death" from immoral owners and I prefer to wear an animal that I also eat. My intent certainly isnt to steer anyone away from horsehide, its just a personal choice I've made. I had my B3 overlayed prior to that decision, so it is my only horsehide jacket.

 

[ButteMT61]

FQHH is not thick enough for my liking, although it is a nice combination of weight and pliability. The biggest reason is living in an area with lots of horses, I've seen what can pass as "natural causes of death" from immoral owners and I prefer to wear an animal that I also eat. My intent certainly isnt to steer anyone away from horsehide, its just a personal choice I've made. I had my B3 overlayed prior to that decision, so it is my only horsehide jacket.

Fair enough. Although mine is as thick as I could handle. As for the treatment of horses, I understand. Took me a long time to pull the trigger on my first one. Signed my share of wild horse petitions etc in the last few years. But if I over think this topic, I'd only wear fabric. I am a big animal lover as are all my family. Good luck.

 

[JLStorm]

Fair enough. Although mine is as thick as I could handle. As for the treatment of horses, I understand. Took me a long time to pull the trigger on my first one. Signed my share of wild horse petitions etc in the last few years. But if I over think this topic, I'd only wear fabric. I am a big animal lover as are all my family. Good luck.

I've only tried horsehide on and seen one other person's well worn in jacket in person. per oz, I think its stiffer than steer, but its limited in its thickness from what I am told. Oz per oz I'd bet FQHH is tougher than steer to and it certainly patinas very well, but I can go thicker in steer, or like you said elk (which I forgot to ask about today).

Don't get me wrong, my intent wasn't to make anyone feel guilty about wearing anything. I don't feel that wearing horse is wrong, but IMO, the gov't meddling in the industry has created the issue and I'm sure its a very small percentage of owners. All in all, I just have this thing against wearing a creature I don't eat (which has lead me to eat some weird stuff). Everyone justifies it a bit differently and to each their own.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I still don't quite get why your don't score some custom safety gear in a flexible cordura/kelvar/fibreglass material, from what you say about the stunts you get invloved in. But I understand that leather looks cooler, even when you can hardly move in it.

I think much info on leather strength is subjective. My own view is that nothing over 3.5 oz cow is necessary for any job. Wade from Insurrection reckons that cow is more abrasion resistant than horse, particularly if you come off a bike.

Much of this leather toughness is also down to how that leather has been processed. Thickness doesn't equal strength, there is also the issue of tensile strength. Kangaroo, for instance, at 2.5 oz is so tough it's crazy. I have had 2.5oz cow that took 5 years to break in and 4 oz cow that was soft and floppy after a month. Luckily my adventure and work needs are satisfied by a 2.5 oz water and abrasion resistant goat. I'll be fascinated to hear how your project ends up.

 

[Hammer Down]

I only eat what I wear first.




Just kidding.

 

[JLStorm]

I still don't quite get why your don't score some custom safety gear in a flexible cordura/kelvar/fibreglass material, from what you say about the stunts you get invloved in. But I understand that leather looks cooler, even when you can hardly move in it. .

The being unable to move well in stiff jackets is really overblown IMO. Aside from repetitive fine motor movements (like driving for hours), I only have had this issue for the first year After that the areas that don't need to bend much are still stiff, but not the arms, shoulders, torso, etc. I think a lot of the hearsay with thick leather is from those that get them for motorcycles and have a valid concern regarding ease of quick and fine motor movements. For those who arent buying a jacket to ride with, in my personal opinion (and you know what Clint Eastwood says about those) the whole stiff leather debate reminds me of folks who have never had a well fit blazer or suit before. Many try a properly fitting blazer on and make some ridiculous over exaggerated body contortion that they would never make during the course of a normal day and say "its too tight across the back". It's not, just don't bend like that. I had a friend say he had to buy blazers a size large to fit his shoulders or else he couldnt move around under a desk and plug in a power cord. Exactly how many times did he do that during the course of a normal day? Less than one. That is how I tend to view the stiff leather debate, I walk around, I point at things, I may type a bit, sit in a chair, grab my wallet, eat something, but I'm not doing gymnastics or going to the gym in a leather jacket.


As far as why I wear leather, there are a few reasons: 1) professional dress code. I'm in management. 2) Like you said, I like leather. A salesman tried to convince me to buy a nylon jacket a few years ago, because in his opinion leather isnt a good choice. There is a difference between stupidity and stubbornness. I own 20+ jackets of different materials, but most of them sit in the closet. 3) It's not that I work in a highly dangerous environment, far from it. I however am not the most graceful of individuals. If I had narrower shoulders and better peripheral vision and depth perception, I probably woulnt have most of these issues. I work in an industry that accepts jeans, as any pants will get damaged pretty quickly, but I don't know of anyone else that has issues with shirts and jackets as I do. Of course, I also have a history of destroying things in general. My parents joke that as a child it would look like I was innocently standing in front of a wall, but when I walked away, the wall would fall down. So, it just works out well that I like the thick heavy stuff and it works for me. No sense in fixing what aint broke ya know.

Also not mentioned, I really enjoy breaking leather in. I have a few coats that I bought almost 20 years ago. They are cheap flexible soft leather, but there is something about stiff leather and the wrinkles, marks, creases, and challenge that capture the history there. They are like growth rings in an old tree to me.

 

[regius]

Anyone heard of this retailer? https://www.bisontrading.ca/fashion/vintage-stylish/classics.html