Colorizing Films and other acts of Blasphemy!

[photobyalan]

This started over here in the Hats forum, but it probably should be its own topic.

I'm going to jump right in to where the previous discussion left off...

On the grand scale of injustices done to films, colorization is pretty mild. Films are butchered regularly by studio executives and consultants with "focus groups" and "audience research". Films are cut for content and time, sometimes many minutes of film and even entire characters are excised. Directors don't get "final cut" until they have proven themselves with a blockbuster or two. Steven Spielberg had to direct Jaws before he got final cut.

Probably the worst butchery done to films is editing for television. I'm not just talking about removing foul language and nudity (of course while leaving every frame of bloody, gory violence intact), I'm speaking of formatting the film to fit the 4:3 ratio of the standard TV screen.

Here is an example.

There are a great number of films that many people have seen only on television in the pan + scan format. What they saw was much, much worse than a colorized version of Casablanca.

Of course, I would guess that, since those films were colorized primarily for television, they were probably not letterboxed either. Add that to the "editing for television", and you have a film (or videotape, as the case may be), that should be burned in the fires of hell.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

Don't even get me started on the whole "Pan & Scan" vs. "Widescreen" debate! A particular pet peeve of mine is when I'm done explaining the virtues of Widescreen,the person I'm talking to says "I don't care, I don't like the 'black bars!'" Aaaargh! Even when presented with the facts...

Movies shown on the former "American Movie Classics" don't even get a second of viewing time from me. "AMC" now means "A Million Commercials" or "A Million Cuts." Thank goodness for TCM and DVD...

 

[LizzieMaine]

If you've seen a film only in your living room TV, video, or DVD, you haven't seen the film as its makers intended -- not just on a big screen but with a large live audience. A vintage film seen in its proper environment, with the proper audience, is an entirely different experience than seeing it alone or with two or three friends on a TV screen. It isn't the size of the screen or the resolution of the image or the aspect ratio that matters -- it's the shared mass experience that truly makes the movie.

Support your favorite independent/revival theatre -- or it might not be there much longer.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

If you've seen a film only in your living room TV, video, or DVD, you haven't seen the film as its makers intended -- not just on a big screen but with a large live audience. A vintage film seen in its proper environment, with the proper audience, is an entirely different experience than seeing it alone or with two or three friends on a TV screen. It isn't the size of the screen or the resolution of the image or the aspect ratio that matters -- it's the shared mass experience that truly makes the movie.

Support your favorite independent/revival theatre -- or it might not be there much longer.

I haer you! I envy those who have gloried in 70mm vistaVision...That's one of many things I'll never get to see: Classic movies as they were intended. I'm hoping the situation is different in "Hollywoodland", is it? Is there an abundance of theaters that have screens large enough to showcase these movies as originally seen?

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Alan,

The only point I would disagree with you on, since I agree entirely with the majority of what you have written, is that I would not rank which act of desectration is worse: adding color, shrinking the image, or editing for content. To me, it is all horrid and unacceptable.

I have always respected the networks for playing "..Private Ryan" uncut.

Also, as it pertains to "final cut;" a film is a thing that is complete when it is released. Studios, producers, and directors all have a stake and a say in its creation. If it is an art, and I believe it is, though I would leave that as a separate discussion; it is a collaborative one. Studios and Producers invest vast sums of money in films for a specific reason; to make money. We, as a society, seem to give a director overriding authority over the studios and producers and indulge them when they release their own cuts after the fact, which are usually self-indulgent and inferior to the originals.

So, as a matter of semantics, I wouldn't call the imposition of changes by the studios and producers as desecration, since they are at least cocollaborators in its creation. Though it may not be desecration, some of the suggested changes that have not been done sounded terrible!

Regards,
HJ

 

[Twitch]

The first colorized flicks were awful. The color blurred outside the object when they moved like ghosts and the deadness was terrible. The computers have made it much better. I saw King Kong colorized that actually looks like a vintage color movie. Tones were soft yet not dead. It still depends on who is doing it and with what hardware and software. Most still don't look just right to me. Only see a couple as good as that King Kong version.

As for artists and their temperment. I once went to see Sam Peckinpaw at Long Beach University long ago to show his cut of my favorite move The Wild Bunch. After it was running about 20 minutes he stopped it and said, "This isn't my movie; the way I cut it." The proper version wasn't there. I, like most continued to watch it none the wiser. I'd seen the theater version a few times but didn't know anything about the mysterious world of "directors' cuts" and all that hoo-haa.

Most of the final theater versions are NOT the cuts the creators of the films envisioned or wanted. So until one purchases a DVD with all the extra schlock you have no idea of what anything was supposed to look like.

Even a chick flick romance has 4 "special effects" people listed in the credits. What? Huh? So nothing released is exactly as the original director or maker saw it in their mind's eye.

Only the advent of DVD with the ability to throw a couple more versions on the big disc has anyone known what the director or someone else actually wanted it cut like.

 

[CharlieH.]

The colouring of black and white films is a subject on which I have somewhat divided opinions. On one hand, I find it to be an outright act of desecration to the film and the director's original vision. Sometimes the hues look completely fake and pale, and the colourizers often ignore that the lighting used in B&W is completely different to that of a colour picture. Not to mention that the colour can completely ruin the movie's atmosphere.

On the other hand, the herculean effort and skill that goes into such a process is sometimes outstanding (especially in more recent productions). So much so, that the only giveaway is the fact that you know the film (or TV show) was originally in black and white.

Any opinions?

 

[scotrace]

The former.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

a colorized version of Casablanca.

Bartenders, do we need to see this kind of obscenity in the Lounge? I apologize for even quoting that filthy language.

 

[CharlieH.]

Bartenders, do we need to see this kind of obscenity in the Lounge? I apologize for even quoting that filthy language.

You know, I actually considered posting such images...

 

[HadleyH]

You know, I actually considered posting such images...

Post them. lol lol lol lol

 

[CharlieH.]

Post them. lol lol lol lol

Can your sould withstand the shocking images of the TRUE story of... "The Coloured Casablanca?!?"
Good thing Citizen Kane escaped Ted Turner's crayons.... if only because Orson himself was still around at the time.

 

[MrBern]

Probably the worst butchery done to films is editing for television. I'm not just talking about removing foul language and nudity (of course while leaving every frame of bloody, gory violence intact), I'm speaking of formatting the film to fit the 4:3 ratio of the standard TV screen.

Actually some films do far better when edited for TV. Of course NOW we can get DVDs w/ added scenes that were omitted for the theaters. But years ago, some movies like Superman, debuted on TV w/ scenes that were not played in theaters.
And many consider the ABCtv version of WrathofKhan to be hte best version of the film. Keep in mind that it was re-edited by the original director.

But yes, if anyone remember's nbc-tv's re-edit & dubbing of RoadWarrior, that was just crazy....

 

[Serial Hero]

A particular pet peeve of mine is when I'm done explaining the virtues of Widescreen,the person I'm talking to says "I don't care, I don't like the 'black bars!'"

Have you been talking to my dad?


Now that Widescreen is so readily available on DVD I won't even watch a pan & scan.

Colorizing? Reminds me of the scene from “Scrooged”. Bill Murray is sitting in the bar watching “It’s A Wonderful Life” in black and white. He comments, “At least there are some things they haven’t messed with.” The bartender looks up, smacks the side of the TV, and the picture turns to color.

Actually, with the advent of DVDs I no longer watch movies broadcast on TV except TCM.

As for directors cuts; I'm not going to dish out an extra 30 bones for a minute and a half more of film, which is normally about all it is.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

.

"Keep Ted Turner and his GD Crayolas away from my movie."
Orson Welles on Turner's attempts to colorize Citizen Kane.

 

[MrBern]

In the early days of colorization, wasnt there a Sinatra film that had been botched? Ole Blue Eyes had been depicted as having brown eyes....

 

[CharlieH.]

In the early days of colorization, wasnt there a Sinatra film that had been botched? Ole Blue Eyes had been depicted as having brown eyes....

Suddenly (1954)

 

[LizzieMaine]

The all-time worst attempts at colorization have to predate the Turner era of the '80s -- anyone remember the dreadful re-colored 1930s cartoon shorts that started showing up on kiddie TV shows in the early '70s? The original black and white versions were shipped to Korea where they were *traced* frame by frame by low-skilled animators and painted in color in the most monstrous color combinations imaginable -- think of a chestnut-brown Daffy Duck with a pink ring around his neck, or a bright-red iris-out at the end of a cartoon. Some of the work was so cheaply and poorly done that flies got trapped under the platen of the camera table when shooting the traced cels -- and you can still see them flicker on the screen in viewing the prints today.

Most of these were '30s era Porky Pig shorts, but a batch of Popeyes were done by Turner of all people in the late '80s and were still showing on cable up till a few years ago. Horrible, horrible travesties for those of us who remember the original versions....

 

[Harp]

...I cannot imagine The Grapes of Wrath altered
from its original and intended black/white format. One scene
in particular, a human shadow cast across the dried, cracked
ground truly brings Steinbeck's novel to life.

 

[CharlieH.]

The all-time worst attempts at colorization have to predate the Turner era of the '80s -- anyone remember the dreadful re-colored 1930s cartoon shorts that started showing up on kiddie TV shows in the early '70s? The original black and white versions were shipped to Korea where they were *traced* frame by frame by low-skilled animators and painted in color in the most monstrous color combinations imaginable -- think of a chestnut-brown Daffy Duck with a pink ring around his neck, or a bright-red iris-out at the end of a cartoon. Some of the work was so cheaply and poorly done that flies got trapped under the platen of the camera table when shooting the traced cels -- and you can still see them flicker on the screen in viewing the prints today.

Most of these were '30s era Porky Pig shorts, but a batch of Popeyes were done by Turner of all people in the late '80s and were still showing on cable up till a few years ago. Horrible, horrible travesties for those of us who remember the original versions....

Gaaah! Don't get me started on those!
Up until a few years ago, the only exposure I had to Popeye cartoons was through the colourized shorts. Since I grew up with the dreadful notion that all "old" cartoons were in colour, for years I thought that Fleishcer was the absolutely shoddiest studio around. Now I'm atoning for that sin.