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cockpit usa a2 jacket
- Thread starter kojax
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- Pasadena, CA
Hate the pocket flaps. Otherwise, looks like the usual Cockpit jacket - nicely made, but nothing special, per se.
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This brand comes up on here occasionally and is generally viewed as a fairly second rate or third rate A2 copy.
For this tribute jacket I think you need to get the measurements. For instance, if the size 42 has 21 or 22 inch shoulders (as Cockpits often have) then I would say forget it. A 42 in a good trim A2 pattern should have around 19 inch shoulders and around 22.5 pit to pit. The look becomes distorted if those measurements are extended to fit today's larger, middle-aged, less than fit 'pilots'.
For this tribute jacket I think you need to get the measurements. For instance, if the size 42 has 21 or 22 inch shoulders (as Cockpits often have) then I would say forget it. A 42 in a good trim A2 pattern should have around 19 inch shoulders and around 22.5 pit to pit. The look becomes distorted if those measurements are extended to fit today's larger, middle-aged, less than fit 'pilots'.
Gamma68
One Too Many
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- Detroit, MI
Out of curiosity, how do you guys think the 1990s Cooper A-2s compare to the Cockpit version?
Over the last couple of years I've amassed a pretty fair collection of Vietnam era USAF patches, so I bought a couple of dirt cheap Cooper A-2s to put some on, rather than having all these patches framed or out of sight. Y'know, just to have a couple of beaters and still show off some of these neat patches.
Anyway, aside from zips and knits, the actual fit of Cooper A-2s is pretty bad; too wide in the shoulders, and the sleeves are way too wide at the body.
One thing that's always struck me about the Cockpit jackets is that the sleeves and shoulders look much trimmer, giving a much nicer fit IMHO.
If I could find a used 48L in goat, I'd buy it, but new ones are like 400 bucks, so I pass.
Anyway, aside from zips and knits, the actual fit of Cooper A-2s is pretty bad; too wide in the shoulders, and the sleeves are way too wide at the body.
One thing that's always struck me about the Cockpit jackets is that the sleeves and shoulders look much trimmer, giving a much nicer fit IMHO.
If I could find a used 48L in goat, I'd buy it, but new ones are like 400 bucks, so I pass.
I think J is right about the Coopers. I have always found them to fit very badly. I am slim and tall and the ones I tried were wide and floppy - a very 1980's look, it seemed to me. The cockpit USA size 42 I measured was 21.5 inches across the shoulders which is still too wide by a couple of inches for my taste.
Weren't some of the earlier USAF A-2s cut more like the originals?
I seem to recall someone (perhaps Warhawk in the 100 Mission G-1 thread) saying that the first reissued A-2s generated some complaints from the aircrews whereupon Cockpit started adjusting the pattern to have handwarmer pockets, looser fits, etc.
So perhaps an earlier Avirex A-2 or early Cooper might be a more traditional fit?
As to the jacket in question, I think it looks fine though I agree the pocket flaps are perhaps a bit...enthusiastic. Cockpit is a fine brand for what it is. They make solid, well made jackets for the "middle ground" consumer. Thus, good leather but nothing with a fancy name, a decent design though perhaps cut considering a non 1941 18 year old's body, etc.
As with so many things, it really comes down to where your priorities lie. But I wouldn't turn my nose up at the Cockpit's wares. My Cockpit 100 Mission G-1 remains one of my best fitting jackets, well made and comfortable.
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I seem to recall someone (perhaps Warhawk in the 100 Mission G-1 thread) saying that the first reissued A-2s generated some complaints from the aircrews whereupon Cockpit started adjusting the pattern to have handwarmer pockets, looser fits, etc.
So perhaps an earlier Avirex A-2 or early Cooper might be a more traditional fit?
As to the jacket in question, I think it looks fine though I agree the pocket flaps are perhaps a bit...enthusiastic. Cockpit is a fine brand for what it is. They make solid, well made jackets for the "middle ground" consumer. Thus, good leather but nothing with a fancy name, a decent design though perhaps cut considering a non 1941 18 year old's body, etc.
As with so many things, it really comes down to where your priorities lie. But I wouldn't turn my nose up at the Cockpit's wares. My Cockpit 100 Mission G-1 remains one of my best fitting jackets, well made and comfortable.
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Deacon is absolutely right.
If you go to the Cockpit website and look at their A-2 selection, you'll see all the WWII repro jackets (in a selection of authentic and inauthentic leather options) and then below that an A-2 choice that was very close to WWII patterns that was pitched to the USAF when the USAF was looking to reintroduce A-2s. R and L sizes are listed as two separate jackets. THIS is the budget option modern goat A-2 to go for IMHO.
Look a little further in the A-2 section and Cockpit also lists its actual issue spec jackets (again R and L listed separately). This is the same as all nasty modern issue A-2s; wide sleeve entry, baggy cut, side-entry pockets, inside pocket, 'extra' side panel construction (for wide-bodied desk jockeys?). AVOID!
I would post a link, but I've been drinking all afternoon, so y'all have to take it from here.
If you go to the Cockpit website and look at their A-2 selection, you'll see all the WWII repro jackets (in a selection of authentic and inauthentic leather options) and then below that an A-2 choice that was very close to WWII patterns that was pitched to the USAF when the USAF was looking to reintroduce A-2s. R and L sizes are listed as two separate jackets. THIS is the budget option modern goat A-2 to go for IMHO.
Look a little further in the A-2 section and Cockpit also lists its actual issue spec jackets (again R and L listed separately). This is the same as all nasty modern issue A-2s; wide sleeve entry, baggy cut, side-entry pockets, inside pocket, 'extra' side panel construction (for wide-bodied desk jockeys?). AVOID!
I would post a link, but I've been drinking all afternoon, so y'all have to take it from here.
I have asked Cockpit USA to provide some measurements for what they call the Reissue A2 jacket in goat $420.00 - curious especially about the shoulder width.
This is the look most of us are anxious to avoid. And it's not just a case of the jacket being a size too large.
This is the look most of us are anxious to avoid. And it's not just a case of the jacket being a size too large.
Or even worse - this 100 Mission Cockpit USA. Now sure, the guy's larger looking but really does the jacket have to have shoulders that look to be about 2 inches too wide on each side!? I bet the pit to pit for a 42 is 26 inches. The Gibson and Barnes jackets were like that when I last saw one.
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HanauMan
Practically Family
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I bought a size 42 goatskin Cooper A2 back in early 1992 and it was / is a traditional trim fit and looks nothing like the oversize jackets in the photos above. The main difference between it and the original jackets, as far as I can see, is that it has a three piece sleeve and the zip tape is nylon. After 25 years my jacket has broken in nicely and the leather, never treated since I bought it, remains intact and supple.
I know that Cooper A2s get a lot of flak from you guys, but I like 'em and I rather have mine than any of these new and expensive reproductions stated as being 'the real thing'.
I know that Cooper A2s get a lot of flak from you guys, but I like 'em and I rather have mine than any of these new and expensive reproductions stated as being 'the real thing'.
I can only guess that Cooper varied their patterns a bit. I tried on a size 40 that was 24 pit to pit and had hideously wide shoulders. It was made in the last years of Cooper as a company. I have seen photos of Coppers posted here that fit reasonably well. I don't care much about brands and I would not pay more than $500 for an A2 so I'm no jacket elitist. As I have said many times before it should be possible to get a decent, trim fit pattern for a few hundred bucks. I have yet to find one other than Ariel Star (now defunct) and AVI out of Denmark, but their knits are terrible.
GregGale
One of the Regulars
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- 177
I used to own a reissue A-2 goat, the fit was horrible! Like those big sweaters in the 90s...
I own a WWII government issue horsehide now and it's a fairly decent fit. Not baggy at all, au contraire!
I own a WWII government issue horsehide now and it's a fairly decent fit. Not baggy at all, au contraire!
HanauMan
Practically Family
- Messages
- 809
- Location
- Inverness, Scotland
As said, my Cooper jacket is a size 42 (though more like a size 40 in fit). Here are the measurements of my jacket:
Shoulder to cuff: 24''
Neck to waist: 25''
Shoulder to shoulder: 20''
Pit to pit: 22''
My jacket doesn't have the later hand warmer pockets or inside pockets and looks a tad trimmer than later Coopers I've seen.
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@HanauMan, Seb Lucas,
Well, that is interesting. It does indeed seem that Cooper jackets changed their pattern, from jackets with 3 piece sleeves and no side panels, to jackets with 2 piece sleeves and side panels. Along the way, the fit got baggier it seems.
Wild guess, HanauMan's jacket was pre-USAF re-introduction design, still emulating WWII fit. My jackets post USAF re-introduction, hence features copying the issue jackets?
Going back to the Cockpit jackets, some guy posted photos of his here in the last few weeks, and I thought the fit was surprisingly good (even though he didn't), and I can't find the thread now, but his Cockpit looked really trim and squared off on the shoulders.
Well, that is interesting. It does indeed seem that Cooper jackets changed their pattern, from jackets with 3 piece sleeves and no side panels, to jackets with 2 piece sleeves and side panels. Along the way, the fit got baggier it seems.
Wild guess, HanauMan's jacket was pre-USAF re-introduction design, still emulating WWII fit. My jackets post USAF re-introduction, hence features copying the issue jackets?
Going back to the Cockpit jackets, some guy posted photos of his here in the last few weeks, and I thought the fit was surprisingly good (even though he didn't), and I can't find the thread now, but his Cockpit looked really trim and squared off on the shoulders.
GregGale
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 177
@Big J , that was me:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/eastman-a-2-help.91267/
It may look trim and all that when I'm wearing only a T-shirt underneath and I'm standing in attention, but I'm wearing it today with a light sweater and I can barely lift/ move my arms :/
Anyhow, I can still recommend their WWII government issue jacket.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/eastman-a-2-help.91267/
It may look trim and all that when I'm wearing only a T-shirt underneath and I'm standing in attention, but I'm wearing it today with a light sweater and I can barely lift/ move my arms :/
Anyhow, I can still recommend their WWII government issue jacket.
GregGale
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 177
Also, I see that now it's available in 2 colors:
mahogany - I guess this is mine, very dark brown
brown - their customer service says it's russet. The pictures on the website are horrible, I can't really tell how dark/ light it is. It would be great to see some photos.
mahogany - I guess this is mine, very dark brown
brown - their customer service says it's russet. The pictures on the website are horrible, I can't really tell how dark/ light it is. It would be great to see some photos.
El Marro
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,603
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- California
Seb,
My Gibson Barnes A2 fits almost exactly like the jacket pictured above, perhaps even a bit longer and baggier! Since it was the first jacket I ever ordered without trying it on first, I was deathly afraid of ordering something too small.
When it arrived I put the jacket on and compared the fit and style to some of the photos of sharp looking A2s I had seen here on the lounge. I was disappointed to realize that the jacket looked more like a leather potato sack than a smart, well fitted A2.
That was all part of the learning curve for me, but I chuckled when I saw your post and thought I would share this.
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This is the look a lot of people actually prefer. One friend of mine is convinced that a leather jacket is too small if the shoulders don't droop like that.
