Cockpit 100 Mission G-1

[bojo]

Not too late at all. I'm pretty sure her advice to me was to order the jacket as-is first, so I could size test it, then after that step was complete, to have the mouton swapped. So you've already completed step 1.

 

[thor]

You can also ask Steve Sellers (Greatest Generation Clothing Co.) if he will swap out the mouton fur. Steve does great custom work (his repro M-422a jackets are sweet!) and has access to some really awesome red/rust brown mouton which would look amazing on a 100-mission G-1.

 

[Deacon211]

Thanks guys. That's awesome news that the Cockpit will swap out the mouton after purchase and of course I have had great success with Steve.

I'll have to contact them both and see what the deal is.


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[Hypoxic]

@WARHAWK

What does one have to do to order the Avenger jacket custom made. I've sent several inquiries to Cockpit and never receive a response. I'm a tall guy and need some specific measurements because I'm somewhere between a regular and tall size.

 

[Deacon211]

@WARHAWK

What does one have to do to order the Avenger jacket custom made. I've sent several inquiries to Cockpit and never receive a response. I'm a tall guy and need some specific measurements because I'm somewhere between a regular and tall size.

I get the sense that people seem to have better luck calling them than writing them. I know you are in France, but might be worth a phone call to establish comm with them.

 

[Hypoxic]

I get the sense that people seem to have better luck calling them than writing them. I know you are in France, but might be worth a phone call to establish comm with them.

Yeah, maybe I'll give that a shot.

 

[Treetopflyer]

In my experience, real aviators don't seem to know or care who made their jacket or how original its design is, or how well it conforms to the 40's, 50's, 60's, etc. They just don't notice that stuff. The few of us that do notice, and care, find ourselves here at the forum, where we can share this passion with others who care. Thankfully.
The moral of this story, is that if you want to buy a jacket, just buy the one that speaks to you, and worry less about what the real aviators wear, because the real aviators don't even know.

Seems as though we have had the same experience, I have found the same thing. I hope I changed a few minds a week ago when I gave a brief on the history of the leather flight jacket in the USN to my fellow aviators. I also gave a brief on the history of brown shoes in the Navy. The feed back I received was positive and they seemed truly interested. BTW, I despise side entry pockets in the G-1. I am purist and feel they should be kept "as is" and left alone.

 

[ButteMT61]

cockpitusa is the worst when it comes to comm's.

 

[Deacon211]

Seems as though we have had the same experience, I have found the same thing. I hope I changed a few minds a week ago when I gave a brief on the history of the leather flight jacket in the USN to my fellow aviators. I also gave a brief on the history of brown shoes in the Navy. The feed back I received was positive and they seemed truly interested. BTW, I despise side entry pockets in the G-1. I am purist and feel they should be kept "as is" and left alone.

That's pretty awesome. I always find it weird that few in the military show any interest in one of its most iconic symbols.

Like to see the PowerPoint!

I took prefer the original configuration of the jacket. Somehow the pockets mess with the lines of the jacket, IMO.


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[davyjones007]

That's pretty awesome. I always find it weird that few in the military show any interest in one of its most iconic symbols.

Like to see the PowerPoint!

I took prefer the original configuration of the jacket. Somehow the pockets mess with the lines of the jacket, IMO.


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NO NO NO POWER POINTS

Jokes aside, I always thought it was funny how some people obsessed over the fit of A-2s, G-1s and even P-coats based on historical pictures. When I was issued my seabag at bootcamp way back in 1991, I could not care less about my uniforms. I loved the dress blues however. But, who didn't. Even when I was assigned to a wing in Misawa, my flight suit and my green flight jacket fit ok. I never gave it a second thought. When you read some of the comments that people put on these forums about this maker and that maker have the most "historically " correct fit, if they only knew that the odds of those young men from 60 years ago didn't really care all that much about such things. At least I doubt they cared based on my own feelings on any of my issued gear.

 

[nick123]

I'm sure if I went in to the service or as an aviator I'd feel like I'm carrying great responsibility around and would be much more concerned about being studious and fulfilling my expectations than whatever jacket I had on. Maybe there'd be time to enjoy it after my stint but the jacket has to be near dead last on a career aviator's priority list when he or she is working. Just conjecture. I don't know. Highly doubt if any of us carried that responsibility we'd be thinking about the silly jacket. But maybe the jacket is equally some kind of nourishment for the overworked soul.

 

[Hypoxic]

I care more about my Navy issued G-1 now than I did back then, I'm sure it's just for sentimental reasons. But in the day, I hammered it inside the P-3s, could have cared less about it. Threw it, sat on it, balled it up for a pillow... So you guys make a good point.

 

[Deacon211]

It's the military...there's ALWAYS Powerpoints! LOL!

Yeah, I agree that I didn't much think of it back then. I did think it was cool though and my jacket was special to me. I still find it weird that so many pilots don't at least have an interest in the history of their jacket.

It's a very nice sentiment you express there Nick, but I'm not sure we deserve it. ;-)

I took my job very seriously. But if I thought about the responsibility of it on a regular basis, I think I'd have been a basket case.

I recall the first time I flew passengers after getting out of TacAir. My first thought was, "Holy crap, I'm carrying passengers! If I ball this up, I'm going to turn 140 people into a fine red spray!"

But, for your sanity, you get over that pretty quickly.

On a different note, is the "Jacky" that people who get good customer service from, Jacky Clyman, cofounder of The Cockpit?

On the one hand, I would not have thought that she would be answering phone calls with the amount of business that the Cockpit does. On the other, you could certainly see how she could get some stuff done if she had a mind to.


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[Big J]

WHOAH! Pump the brake pedal there son, that's some line y'all about to cross!

I have no doubt that military aviators are too excited to care about the in's and out's of G-1s when they get issued one, too concerned with not washing out to give jackets a thought during training, and too preoccupied with doing there job to become a jacket nerd thereafter, BUT...

Don't you be coming in the lounge and showing disrespect on the issue of fit!

I don't care if 'real' aviators ever noticed it or not, but there are vast differences in cuts of WWII and 70's issue G-1s of the same tag size.

Additionally, various repro jackets over the years, claiming to be 'authentic' and 'original' and 'mil-spec' also have fits and cuts that stray wildly from issue jackets of the same tag size.

So, yeah, obsessing over photos and details to make sure that my $1000 jacket is accurate seems pretty reasonable to me, I don't mind (or care) if real USN pilots never noticed anything about their free jackets they were issued with.

Enough perspective for ya'?

 

[Treetopflyer]

On a different note, is the "Jacky" that people who get good customer service from, Jacky Clyman, cofounder of The Cockpit?

On the one hand, I would not have thought that she would be answering phone calls with the amount of business that the Cockpit does. On the other, you could certainly see how she could get some stuff done if she had a mind to.

I thought the same thing when I e-mailed about a computer bag I purchased several years ago at their store in NYC. She replied to me personally about it. Not only was the original e-mail from her, but all of the follow up e-mails and she was friendly when I phoned.

 

[Deacon211]

WHOAH! Pump the brake pedal there son, that's some line y'all about to cross!

I have no doubt that military aviators are too excited to care about the in's and out's of G-1s when they get issued one, too concerned with not washing out to give jackets a thought during training, and too preoccupied with doing there job to become a jacket nerd thereafter, BUT...

Don't you be coming in the lounge and showing disrespect on the issue of fit!

I don't care if 'real' aviators ever noticed it or not, but there are vast differences in cuts of WWII and 70's issue G-1s of the same tag size.

Additionally, various repro jackets over the years, claiming to be 'authentic' and 'original' and 'mil-spec' also have fits and cuts that stray wildly from issue jackets of the same tag size.

So, yeah, obsessing over photos and details to make sure that my $1000 jacket is accurate seems pretty reasonable to me, I don't mind (or care) if real USN pilots never noticed anything about their free jackets they were issued with.

Enough perspective for ya'?

Nope, I'd agree that if you spend anywhere between $500 and 2 grand for a historical flight jacket, you should get one that fits you and fits historically if that was a selling feature of the jacket.

I still do find it funny though that pilots, who are generally obsessed with the dream and adventure of flying, don't really think much about its most enduring symbol. More than anything I think they just don't know the difference. I do think that the modern G-1 has gotten baggier, though I've seen pics of some of the guys here wearing it surprisingly well.

For me, it was my assignment as the squadron historical officer, a crummy little job that they give to the new guy, that set me off down the track to finding a historical G-1 (before I ever knew that there was an M-422a). If it wasn't for that, I would never known that the G-1 had evolved over time.

 

[bojo]

Yep, Jacky Clyman.
jacky@cockpitusa.com

Cheers,
Bojo

 

[Big J]

Deacon, I agree that it is strange that pilots have never seemed to care too much about their jackets despite being cognizant of the jackets symbolism. I really just think that;
A) they have more pressing matters to consider. And,
B) the history of these jackets isn't actually well understood outside of a few dedicated nerds and enthusiasts. This is mainly due to the fact that various makers and 'experts' have a vested interest in exploiting facts to market their products.
C) There's also the overwhelming fact of being issued something for basically free, and therefore not really appreciating (in every sense of the word) it fully.

I do agree that from period photos (just like A-2s) fit does seem to be all over the place; short and long, loose and baggy. But this is mainly a function of incorrect sizing due to stock constraints at time of issue rather than cut and fit of jackets being different for the same label size within the same era.

 

[Deacon211]

Good points!

Honestly, I think the lack of knowledge is the biggest issue. I was pretty attached to my first real flight jacket free or not. But if someone had showed me or told me that they were made better (which some will dispute) in the past, I think I'd have been pretty keen on having a better one. In fact, it was my search for a better stock jacket that led me to the Cockpit and then to Flightsuits and their M-422a which was the first I had heard of the model.

It was all downhill from there.

 

[G-1_USN_USMC_USCG]

Deacon221,
I found a "100 mission" G-1 jacket by Cockpit USA on eBay for $588.05. Is that a good price for this "one of a kind" Naval Flight Jacket? Based on your previous posts, if you like a reproduction like this one, then I think it must be one to add to the collection. Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for your time and for your wise counsel and advice.
Cheers,
Mike