Clothing/attire tips for short men

[Paisley]

Well said Dave, well said. :eusa_clap And, thanks to everyone for your excellent advice so far.

I do have to say that no matter how confident one is (and I'm pretty darn confident), I believe shorter men have to fight a little harder for respect from both men and women, but that's a whole different discussion. I remember my sister-in-law mouthing off years ago that she could kick my butt, simply because I was shorter than her. Yeah, right. lol I also think it can be an issue in the professional world.

Steve

I'm 5'-4" and cute and look younger than I am. Yes, you have to be feisty not to be run over.

Or you can do the Columbo thing and let people underestimate you at first--and then catch them off their guard.

 

[Marty M.]

Sounds tall to me.

Steve, I'm a 5'7" and 160lb guy. My old weight lifting days(long, long ago) have left me a fairly stocky guy. I agree with most of what's been said. The name of the game for guy's like us is vertical. Wearing pattern's can be a wonderfull thing. They can give you a visual uplift. Slimmer fitting garments will give you vertical. You can wear cuffs on your trousers, just make a 1'1/4 inch cuffs. Don't shy away from wearing Double Breasted suits. Darker colored DB's in solids and stripes will give you a longer leg look. Just make sure that your suit coats aren't too long.
The small end of my tie is always too long. It can hang a couple of inches longer then the front side. I like that because I can tuck the small end in my pant waist. Then the tie never falls in the soup. Speaking of ties, I like the elongated look that the 4IH gives me.
Shirt collars, it's hard to beat the straight or a classic moderate spread. We'll have to have a meeting of us under 5'8" Lounge guy's. Personally, I think that we should all meet at the Baron's place. I've always wanted to see England.
Marty Mathis

 

[PastimeSteve]

The brim width is good. I'd say the crown was a bit high. (what's the word on indy hats? Can they be got with varying dimensions? I know how nuts people are about the accuracy . . . for example, is the crown height on an AB hat the same for size 7, 7 3/8, 7 7/8 etc? This would not make sense to me)

Hi Baron -- thanks. Jimmy Pierce, who I bought my hat from, does custom make his hats, so adjustments can be ordered. Even after looking at pictures of me, he still recommended his standard 5 3/4" crown height, so I went with his recommendation.

When I first put the hat on it felt way too tall. Over time I have been getting used to it, but now I'm concerned again...

Anyway, Marty and everyone else, thanks for sharing your tips. I agree a meeting at Baron's would be very insightful for we short dudes.

I especially want to thank Paisley as she's the only female brave enough to join in on this discussion. I really appreciate a woman's point of view on this stuff, so thanks Paisley! You're a sweetheart.

Steve

 

[Edward]

I'd like to add one thing that may or may not be of use, but is purely a personal thing.... I remember a friend of my brother's avoiding wearing a traditional swallow-tailed morning coat for his wedding, preferring a square cut instead. IMO, that actually would have made him look shorter, cutting him off at the knee, whereas the almost hour-glass swoop of the tails would create the illusion of greater height by making him appear slimmer..... By the same token, I'd tend to suggest avoiding overcoats that are full length - where possible, a thigh-length jacket would I think look better.

And yes, it's amazing what posture can do. I've been a slouch for so damn long I'm really having to try and learn how to stand up straight, and it's not gonig well - I'm naturally 5'10", but I probably look five eight or less most of the time.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You mean the morning coat was cut without the cutaway front? so it would be like a frock coat cut?

I've found with morning costume that the more trouser the better - with a natural waist trouser, of course. very appealing to the short gent. look how great the Duke looks! And 'E was even shorter than me.

bk

 

[Orgetorix]

I've found with morning costume that the more trouser the better

Something like these?

 

[Marty M.]

Fit for a king.

You mean the morning coat was cut without the cutaway front? so it would be like a frock coat cut?

I've found with morning costume that the more trouser the better - with a natural waist trouser, of course. very appealing to the short gent. look how great the Duke looks! And 'E was even shorter than me.

bk

Baron,
Do you know what his size and/or measurements were?
Marty

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have the official information somewhere. . . unfortunately not accessible right now. I recall that he was about 5' 2" with a 28 inseam and 36 chest (actual measurement).

bk

 

[FedoraGent]

I'm short too...

Mate,

I'm short too, and have over the last 10 years finally figured out what works for me. I'll answer your questions and then lend some thoughts:

- What are some general clothing/attire tips for short dudes like me (btw, we short guys need a term like the Big and Tall people have, instead of just "short")

1. If you're going to wear a hat, make sure that the hat band/ribbon isn't too large. It ends up making some men look like clowns...and with a short vintage tie, it just completes the equation.

2. My personal opinion is that brims that are too large or a hat with a high crown often makes a man look miserably silly. This is not meant to upset my other Floungers, but it's my general feeling and I'm blunt and honest. Why lie about it.

3. Color and accents are important to pull off the look that you're going for. If you don't know the look that you're going for, take a look at magazines like Classic Style, sites like Fedora Lounge, LondonLounge and StyleForum. They are perhaps great examples, but again references so that you can put together a look that is right for you.

4. I've always found that Apparel Arts as well as my other fellow Loungers is a great references for vintage fashions. Hanging out with other vintage people works out as well.

5. If you can afford it, find a tailor that you can build a re pour with. Learn about fabrics, draping and all other things to arm you on what is appropriate for your build and particular style.

6. Some high waists are wasted on folks that aren't tall. However, pulled off right, the Hollywood waist for slacks can be a powerful ally in getting people to see you for how you carry yourself and not just your height.

7. Vests/Waistcoats are VERY slimming and help to define you just about as well as a well draped suit would.

8. Accents such as pocket squares with ties help offset color. Use them to your advantage.

- Should casual shirts and t-shirts be tucked in or left out?

This one again, is personal choice. However, I've personally found that it's about how you wear your style. For instance, I don't feel right if I don't walk out the house looking crisp, well pressed and tucked in properly. However, where it comes to Hawaiian shirts, you won't catch me tucking them in. It's also in my opinion partly what is appropriate for the occasion. In one case, I would not go un-tucked and not pressed to a customer due to the audience and the type of social or professional situation. Some would say that it is about propriety. You be the judge.

- Should we avoid jeans all together (something I've heard)?

Avoiding jeans is a personal choice, one to which I'm happy to report I've done. As a result, I've found other ways, like un-pleated chinos and short sleeve with suede saddle shoes to establish a "casual look". It's working for me, but I was never into the whole jeans feel myself as a somewhat larger gent. If you're alright integrating a look, by all means but find something that works for you. Dependent on what your views are on this, you might not want to come off a bit rockabilly or some 'other' type. It comes down to what you're comfortable with. For me, I've sworn off jeans.

- What about ties? Most ties are too long, no matter the not style.

Vintage ties are a thing of beauty and have as of late become a joy of mine. There are many different vintage ties. The fat ties, the skinny ties, the peek-a-boo ties...and some are hand painted while some are the most beautiful silk or rayon pieces of art you've ever laid your eyes on. Vintage ties are NOT long, and they are definitely shorter than their modern counterparts.

- What do you do if you're on a limited budget and can't afford professional alterations?

Easy. Learn how to do it yourself or find someone that is rather cheap. However, beware that if you find someone that isn't familiar with vintage in particular and they are used to modern clothing...they could do more harm than good.

I hope this helps.

FG.

 

[Edward]

You mean the morning coat was cut without the cutaway front? so it would be like a frock coat cut?

Yeah, more Victorian style. They definitely shorten the body - I look much taller myself in swallow tails, and I'm five ten.

I've found with morning costume that the more trouser the better - with a natural waist trouser, of course. very appealing to the short gent. look how great the Duke looks! And 'E was even shorter than me.

bk

Absolutely! I have the soul of a true anti-monarchist, but dammit Edward VIII knew how to dress!

 

[Orgetorix]

look how great the Duke looks! And 'E was even shorter than me.

bk

On the other hand, Wallis's trousers make her look eight feet tall.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

that's just because she's standing next to him. I suspect she's either on a lower level than him there or she's standing slightly in front of him, certainly some trickery to get the effect that she's not so much taller than him.

(in my opinion her clothing is uniformly terrible, but i realise i'm in the minority with that one)

bk

 

[Edward]

that's just because she's standing next to him. I suspect she's either on a lower level than him there or she's standing slightly in front of him, certainly some trickery to get the effect that she's not so much taller than him.

(in my opinion her clothing is uniformly terrible, but i realise i'm in the minority with that one)

bk

She reminds me of the very first Princess Leia action figures....

 

[Paisley]

On the subject of whether or not to tuck in shirts...

If you decide to leave your shirt untucked (say, it's a guayabara), buy it or have it hemmed (both the sleeves and shirt tail) so that it doesn't make your arms and legs look stumps. This is the idea behind women's petite sizes: a short-sleeved shirt that would look fine on an average-sized woman will cover the elbows and pants seat of a short woman.

If you want to see how this would work, put on a short-sleeved shirt and roll up the sleeves an inch or two and pin up the shirt tail. I think you'll like the results.

 

[dostacos]

Isnip

(btw, we short guys need a term like the Big and Tall people have, instead of just "short")?

snip

Senator Jack

I always say I am undertall of course in my case that is MORBIDLY undertall

 

[Mr. Rover]

Thanks Baron -- yes, I'm an Indy fan, but have always just liked the hat. Honestly, does it look too big on me?

Steve

I'll have to agree with the Baron- the width is in proportion for your shoulders, but the super tall crown and your face aren't in proportion IMHO. It may just be the angle of the shot or how you're wearing the hat...it looks rather sunny out and in the case of practicality, wearing it low over the eyes is what the brim is for, right? Maybe a little bit of a tilt either back or to the side can offset it from looking a square block on your head by bringing out more of your face? I think tall crowns looks fine on short men...look at James Cagney...you just can't let the hat overshadow your face.

I don't want to just keep repeating what the others have said, as it is all good advice. A longer rise is good with a suit, as it creates an uninterrupted vertical line. Although, without a jacket, the opposite may be true and the high waisted pants can make you look shorter since the torso looks disproportionately smaller (see Bogart sans jacket in Maltese Falcon or Sabrina). It really depends on your body.

Waist suppression, whether it's tailored or casual clothes, help create a slimmer vertical line, too. Fit is very important- I don't like jackets to go much longer than the bottom of the crotch- that should be easier to find these days, as many designers have followed in Thom Browne's footsteps.

 

[Qwkslvr]

Stingy brim

Should a short person wear a stingy brim in a fedora? I always think that a short person looks really nice in a Bowler, which has a small brim. More so than a tall person.

 

[Dagwood]

You may find this article interesting - it appeared in a local Los Angeles paper on Tuesday:

Short on stature, big on style
On September 04, 2007

Suit yourself!

Actor Tom Cruise, rapper Ludacris and DreamWorks exec David Geffen are all big names. But the fact that they all are short men - measuring in at under 5-foot-8 - puts them in an underserved segment of the clothes-shopping population. Of course, those heavyweights rake in enough dough to make finding well-fitting suits and sportswear the least of their problems. But for the rest of the male population with similar height stats, the battle remains.

"A quarter of an inch makes more of a difference on a shorter person than a taller person," says Alan Au, clients' relation manager for Jimmy Au's, a Beverly Hills store specializing in clothes for shorter men.

But that's the problem. While there are 500 stores nationwide that cater to big and tall men, Au says there are only about 10 stores across the country dedicated to short men. "If you don't have people who know how to make (smaller) sizes well, then manufacturers don't try," Au says. While the Casual Male Retail Group unveiled plans to change the name of its nationwide Big & Tall menswear chain in early 2006 - to counter a negative connotation linked with the rise in obesity - those in the short and small apparel industry have been struggling simply to make any kind of name for themselves.

According to the NPD Group, a New York-based consumer and retail market research firm, the U.S. men's big and tall apparel industry generated nearly $5 billion in 2006, an increase of more than 6 percent from 2005. But numbers for the short and small apparel industry aren't even calculated.

Based on those statistics - or lack of them - it would be reasonable to think that big and tall men in the U.S. greatly outnumber their smaller brethren. Not so, if you consider that the average male in the United States is around 5-foot-9. The most difficult to fit are men under 5-foot-5 and really slim or really big men standing between 5-foot-5 and 5-foot-8. "Almost none of the department stores carry (suits and sportswear) to fit these sizes," says Au.

And it's his job to know these things. Au plays a big role in the 40-plus-year-old business that started with his father, Jimmy Au, selling custom suits out of his car as a sophomore in college. "He realized the people who made the most orders were either really tall or really short," says the younger Au. Measuring in at an especially hard-to-fit 5-foot-3 himself, Jimmy Au opened his first retail store, specializing in menswear catering to the 5-foot-8-and-shorter segment of male shoppers, almost a decade after starting his door-to-door suit-making and fitting business.

After having moved around Southern California - including locations in Glendale and the Beverly Center - Jimmy Au's has settled into a larger Westside space that offers a wide selection of high-end suits, sportswear, shoes and accessories. The store works with leading designers such as Calvin Klein and Michael Kors to provide menswear to fit all shapes and sizes of shorter men.

Although retailers servicing exclusively a shorter clientele, by industry standards, are severely lacking, customers aren't exactly rushing the double doors of Jimmy Au's, and Alan Au isn't surprised. Most of the shop's business comes from its loyal customers (many from the East Coast, where short-men's stores are nonexistent), with a handful of celebrity clientele and some TV shows seeking out their expertise as well.

"Last season, we worked on 20 shows," says Alan Au. This year, he says, the number is likely to increase, and plans already have been made to outfit celebrities such as Seth Green and Ed Asner for the Emmy Awards later this month. So why is the supply so low when the demand is so high?

"It only took five years to get petite-plus size stores (available for women)," points out Alan Au. "Guys, however, don't make that kind of noise.

"Consumers are complacent (and) settle for smaller sizes (at larger retail stores)," he says. As long as they're buying from the Nordstroms and Neiman Marcuses, manufacturers continue to make them the same way - too-big small sizes. For designers such as Jimmy Au, the challenge becomes getting his smaller-size designs made at all.

"I have to negotiate with the manufacturer (and) guarantee a big number (on the order)," says the elder Au. His own one-year-old line, the Jimmy Au Collection, includes suits and sportswear with the "XS" label, especially made to fit men 5-foot-5 and shorter. "There is no `regular' size in the collection," says the younger Au.

Marshawn Williams, an entrepreneur living in L.A., avoids suits altogether. At a slim 5-foot-7, he instead opts for unique, vintage blazers he can get at trendy second-hand shops such as the Aardvark's Odd Ark chain. "I don't like name brands, but (retailers) tend to make clothes too big anyway," says Williams. He points out that while women and kids have it the easiest ("they've got stuff for them everywhere!"), for men his height and size, "They don't give options."

While some men such as Williams put fashion first, and worry about fit later with a trip to the tailor, Alan Au says for most men in a similar predicament, fashion isn't as much of a priority as "finding clothes that fit" - even at the expense of personal style. Fortunately, his store's customers don't have to choose. "Not only do (the clothes) fit, you're getting fashion that's in line with current trends," he says. Au also points out that smaller sizes from bigger retailers aren't really made for the smaller man.

"Most major designers start at a regular (meant for men 5-foot-8 to 6 feet) and tailor from there," he says.Au emphasizes proportion as opposed to size. When tailoring a "regular" suit, "It may technically fit, but the proportions are off," he says. The end result will be lower placement of the pocket, where the elbow should be on the sleeve, and the arm hole, which, designer Jimmy Au says, "cannot be altered."

The partially color-blind designer, who works out of his Beverly Hills store, is committed to creating proportion with the use of his own tried-and-true measurements, developed from his many years in the business.

His son picks out colors and patterns that complement a smaller build rather than overwhelm it.

"What people find attractive is proportion," says the younger Au. "And if you don't have the right proportion, then you've got to wear clothes that create the illusion of proportion."

 

[Jovan]

She reminds me of the very first Princess Leia action figures....

*geeky laughter*

All of these tips seem pretty sound. I agree about the hat, I think the crown could stand to be re-blocked (?) to be a little shorter, but that's all.

 

[pablocham]

My one tip for short men like myself not to look shorter: don't wear three-button jackets.