Christmas without Christ? Huh?

[Mike in Seattle]

But it always goes the other way: my pagan friend is being forced to take down her Yule decorations in her yard because of people in her neighborhood voting that only "approved" displays are permitted, which includes blue lights for the Jewish folks, Christian symbols and nativity scenes for Christians, but precludes things like her sun wheel, the apples she hangs from her oak tree and roasting the pig on the spit in her backyard. (Items were specifically excluded from the thing she got.)

This is her yard: she's not telling her next door neighbor to take down his nativity scene. Or the woman across the street to remove the "reason for the season" lights. She's celebrating HER holiday (December 21st).

Tell your friend to leave them up and call the ACLU - they'd have an absolute field day with this one... HOA's & neighborhood associations get slammed all the time for overstepping their bounds and this is definitely one of those instances.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Let's just change the official name to Giftmas and be done with it.

 

[Lincsong]

Homeowners Associations are usually just shills for the City. Ooops political talk and fftopic: But if I want to paint my house purple with pink polka dots I'd do it to torment the neighbors.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I think what matters most is how people behave, the spirit behind it and what they actually do for Christmas or any other holiday of religious origin, not the name they use to define it. If someone is volunteering and truly demonstrating the spirit behind Christmas, year round, I think that is what the spirit of Christmas and Jesus is about.

I'm a big supporter of the Marine Corps Toys for Tots. I don't think all materialism is evil when it is within reason and morally sound. I'm against the idea that kids need ipods, video games, etc. I attended a craft fair and bought a great toy from a man with the job title "Toy Maker." Here in Maine we still have people making dolls, wooden toys and other things by hand. I think those make great gifts because they support a local made in American economy and encourage imagination from kids. (You ever notice how little kids sometimes prefer to play with the gift wrap and packing more than the contents?) Something simple like a doll to hug can be important to a little child who otherwise has nothing. I love Santa Claus. I think anything that encourages kids to have faith, even if it's a man in a red suit with a belly that shakes like a bowl full of jelly when he laughs, is a good thing.

One year my husband and I brought hand made gifts and cards to some of the veterans at the local veterans home. The name of Jesus never came up but I'm sure the smiles on their faces and the warm feelings we all received were in synch with the meaning of the season. (I always make people in my life gifts, or buy them at craft fairs. I have friends and family of many religions. This year I wrapped present in vintage 1950's wrapping paper.)

"For it is good to be children sometimes, and never better than at Christmas, when its mighty Founder was a child himself." Charles Dickens

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Something nice

fftopic: HARRINGTON: Maine wreaths will again adorn national cemetery
Five thousand donated wreaths will begin their journey from Maine to Arlington National Cemetery on Sunday.
This is the 15th year that Worcester Wreath Co., has donated wreaths to adorn grave markers at the cemetery. Volunteers are scheduled to decorate the wreaths Sunday morning before loading them onto a tractor-trailer for the trip.
The Patriot Guard Riders, a veterans motorcycle group, will escort the wreaths on the journey, primarily on Route 1. As many as 300 vehicles are expected to join the convoy.
The wreaths are scheduled to arrive at Arlington National Cemetery on Thursday. They will be placed in designated sections of the cemetery as well as at the grave of Edmund Muskie, at the Kennedy family memorial and at the mast of the USS Maine.
At noon, there will be a wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and at 50 coordinated observances around the country.

 

[Solid Citizen]

NICE POST

PrettySquareGal,

Thanks for posting this one, with all the Pearl Harbor stories this week & all our troops posted in harms way! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

SC

PS Happy Hanukkah

 

[PrettySquareGal]

PrettySquareGal,

Thanks for posting this one, with all the Pearl Harbor stories this week & all our troops posted in harms way! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

SC

PS Happy Hanukkah

Why thank you, SC. And Merry Christmas to you (if you celebrate it)!

 

[scotrace]

You've been missed, PSG. Very nice to hear from you indeed.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

You've been missed, PSG. Very nice to hear from you ideed.

Thank you kindly.

 

[MK]

Agreed

You've been missed, PSG. Very nice to hear from you ideed.

:arated:

 

[MK]

.

It used to be the birthday of the man who saved our necks. Now it stands for Santa Clause and we spell it with an "X". - Larry Norman

 

[PrettySquareGal]

:arated:

Well now, the host himself has missed me. I do feel very welcomed!

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Christmas and the holiday season (yes, including Kwanza) only means as much or as little, FEELS only as much or as little, as WE choose it to. If you wish to be cynical about it, you WILL be cynical about it. If you wish to believe that Christmas is all about material things, you WILL believe that. If you wish to believe all those that are saying that Christmas is being attacked, that it has come down to being secular, that ALL of God and Christ has been removed from the holiday, you WILL believe that. That's YOUR choice. But it's not mine.


“Christmas gift suggestions:
To your enemy, forgiveness.
To an opponent, tolerance.
To a friend, your heart.
To a customer, service.
To all, charity.
To every child, a good example.
To yourself, respect.”


And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[jamespowers]

I saw Miracle on 34th Street a few nights ago. I reference that for your viewing pleasure. The locker room scene with Edmund Gwenn and the the 17 year old Alfred talking about Christmas was the meat of that movie and a good example for this argument.
Alfred, Macy janitor: Yeah, there's a lot of bad 'isms' floatin' around this world, but one of the worst is commercialism. Make a buck, make a buck. Even in Brooklyn it's the same - don't care what Christmas stands for, just make a buck, make a buck.
A few other quotes as well:
Kris Kringle: You see, Mrs. Walker, this is quite an opportunity for me. For the past 50 years or so I've been getting more and more worried about Christmas. Seems we're all so busy trying to beat the other fellow in making things go faster and look shinier and cost less that Christmas and I are sort of getting lost in the shuffle.
Kris Kringle: Oh, Christmas isn't just a day, it's a frame of mind... and that's what's been changing. That's why I'm glad I'm here, maybe I can do something about it.
Quite apro pos for 1947 and it has only gotten worse in nearly sixty years since. Sixty years ago was merely the tip of the iceberg. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

["Doc" Devereux]

“Christmas gift suggestions:
To your enemy, forgiveness.
To an opponent, tolerance.
To a friend, your heart.
To a customer, service.
To all, charity.
To every child, a good example.
To yourself, respect.”

That's a damned fine list, but I'd like to hope that I hand them out more than once every twelve months. For those who celebrate Christmas, is it not a reminder to take these principals with one throughout the year?

 

[Roger]

I was in a Walgreens yesterday and saw a Hannukah display. I wasn't offended.:eusa_clap

 

[jamespowers]

I was in a Walgreens yesterday and saw a Hannukah display. I wasn't offended.:eusa_clap

You won't find that here:

Gap, Old Navy censor 'Christmas,' replace it with 'Holiday'

Gap, which owns Old Navy, Banana Republic, Forth & Towne and Piperlime, has become the latest politically correct retailer, intentionally censoring the use of "Christmas" in their in-store, online and printed advertising.

Instead of referring to the season as Christmas, Gap instead uses the word "holiday." As hard as we tried, AFA could not find a single instance in which Gap-owned stores use the term "Christmas." Not a single time!

When one Old Navy store manager was asked by AFA if the word Christmas was in his store, he answered, "We have a lot of Christmas gifts in our stores, but the word Christmas is not used here. Everything is 'holiday.'"

Gap wants you to do your Christmas shopping with them, but they don't want to mention the Reason for the season. Gap doesn't want to offend non-Christians by using Christmas. The fact that their censoring the use of Christmas might offend Christians seems to be of no importance.

 

[Fletch]

I saw Miracle on 34th Street a few nights ago. I reference that for your viewing pleasure. The locker room scene with Edmund Gwenn and the the 17 year old Alfred talking about Christmas was the meat of that movie and a good example for this argument.
Alfred, Macy janitor: Yeah, there's a lot of bad 'isms' floatin' around this world, but one of the worst is commercialism. Make a buck, make a buck. Even in Brooklyn it's the same - don't care what Christmas stands for, just make a buck, make a buck.
A few other quotes as well:
Kris Kringle: You see, Mrs. Walker, this is quite an opportunity for me. For the past 50 years or so I've been getting more and more worried about Christmas. Seems we're all so busy trying to beat the other fellow in making things go faster and look shinier and cost less that Christmas and I are sort of getting lost in the shuffle.
Kris Kringle: Oh, Christmas isn't just a day, it's a frame of mind... and that's what's been changing. That's why I'm glad I'm here, maybe I can do something about it.
Quite apro pos for 1947 and it has only gotten worse in nearly sixty years since. Sixty years ago was merely the tip of the iceberg. :eusa_doh:

Commercialism has gotten much worse. In fact it's so much worse that even the traditionalists don't complain much about it anymore. Besides, they have another fish to fry: the so called War on Christmas or creeping secularism.

Now this War on Christmas is mostly a big whiney commercial(!) media put-up job based on scattered anecdotes. The goal is to mobilize the aggrieved religious reactionaries among us (and keep them tuned in, emailing, and threatening boycott) - the folks who feel Christmas is somehow polluted and spoiled by anything that doesn't put their church, their family values, and their way of life in the dominant position they feel it deserves in our culture. The strategy is to gin 'em up till they feel like a persecuted minority, even though they're neither a minority nor terribly persecuted.

Make no mistake, these cranky (if easily manipulated and generally well-intentioned) folks were with us in 1947 too. But maybe it helped that ideas like secularism and political correctness were barely known in 1947. You didn't see angry letters in the newspapers or hear heated-up radio commentaries about Miracle on 34th Street being too secular or too humanist. Folks surely thought Hollywood was a nest of godless Semitic social-welfare Democrats then too – but they channeled that anger into a hunt for Commies in the movie industry, and finally the media and government in the early '50s. For some reason, though, after that you didn't see complaints about commercialism in Christmas movies for a long time.

Oddly enough it took the Peanuts gang, brainchildren of the religously conservative Charles Schulz, to break that trend in 1965 with A Charlie Brown Christmas - and bring back a gentler, more broadly humanistic holiday message, something lots of people could get behind in a time of looming cultural upheaval. What's really sad is that that's no longer true in our time of looming cultural upheaval.

Love thy neighbor as thyself, we think today. And make damn sure thy neighbor doeth likewise.

 

[jamespowers]

Commercialism has gotten much worse. In fact it's so much worse that even the traditionalists don't complain much about it anymore. Besides, they have another fish to fry: the so called War on Christmas or creeping secularism.

Now this War on Christmas is mostly a big whiney commercial(!) media put-up job based on scattered anecdotes. The goal is to mobilize the aggrieved religious reactionaries among us (and keep them tuned in, emailing, and threatening boycott) - the folks who feel Christmas is somehow polluted and spoiled by anything that doesn't put their church, their family values, and their way of life in the dominant position they feel it deserves in our culture. The strategy is to gin 'em up till they feel like a persecuted minority, even though their neither a minority nor terribly persecuted.

Make no mistake, these cranky (if easily manipulated and generally well-intentioned) folks were with us in 1947 too, altho they were at least not openly divisive along religious lines. (Maybe it helped that the word secularism probably didn't even exist in 1947.) They surely thought Hollywood was a nest of godless Hebraic social-welfare Democrats then too – tho they channeled that anger into a hunt for Commies in the movie industry, and finally the media and government in the early '50s. For some reason, though, after that you didn't see complaints about commercialism in Christmas movies for a long time.

Oddly enough it took the Peanuts gang, brainchildren of the religously conservative Charles Schulz, to break that trend in 1965 with A Charlie Brown Christmas - and bring back a gentler, more broadly humanistic holiday message, something lots of people could get behind in a time of looming cultural upheaval. What's really sad is that that's no longer true in our time of looming cultural upheaval.

Love thy neighbor as thyself. And make damn sure thy neighbor doth likewise.

 

[Roger]

When it is a concerted effort to take out the word Christmas and replace it with Holiday is when it is ridiculous. I remember seeing a trailer for a movie and it read; "Coming Holiday 2002" Which holiday???????