Chinatown

[jake_fink]

I just watched Chinatown again. It's the one movie I've seen more than any other; I watch 3 or 4 times a year. I think it is a perfect film.

It is extraordinarily well cast and acted. It is directed by a master, keeping to the subjectivity of the detective (as Hitchcock did in Vertigo) while utilizing every inch of the wide-screen image. It is superbly written, with great dialogue and a subtle laying in of all the set-up necessary for every pay-off. It is a great, I think one of the greatest, examples of production design, where every detail, every colour, every costume contribute to the theme, develop character or forward the plot. And it has one of the all time best soundtracks I've ever heard, which also contributes rather than distracts from the film, which sounds period without being period, and which has as many layers and moods while still being coherent as the narrative itself does.

Finally, also, Jake Gittes is my style hero. In fact, I watched the movie again this time because I just bought a new suit and as it was similair to one of Jake's I wanted to see the tie he matched with it.

What do the rest of you think of this film?

 

[Brad Bowers]

It's been probably 15 years or more since I saw it. I don't really remember any of it, but I do remember thinking it was a really good film, up until the very end. Something about the ending I didn't like, but since I can't remember, I can't tell you what it was. I thought it needed a different ending.

Guess I'll have to watch it again!

Brad

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Excellent film. I also watch it fairly often and since it is on cable all of the time, I keep getting sucked in (along with L.A. Confidential and Muhulland Falls -but that is another story).

Nicholson, in this film, is the heir to Bogart's Sam Spade. Also, the film doesn't allow its nostalgia to weigh it down or to obstruct the plot. It feels very real.

On a more superfitical note, the clothes, as you have said, are awesome. Some of the hats seem to have been locked away in the prop closet for 30 years. Jake does this neat thing where his pocket square doesn't match, but compliments his tie, very nice.

 

[jake_fink]

Hello guys.

Brad,
Yes, go rent the dvd as soon as you can. I think you'll like it. Did you get through your Thin Man Collection? It's sweet.

HJ,
I agree that the nostalgia doesn't seem to weigh the film down, that it feels real. That's the problem with some period films though, that the signs of the period are forefronted and naturalism is lost. I don't know if you're a Sopranos fan, but this is the final season and a half coming up, and in the press for it James Gandolfini mentioned one of his projects. He is producing and hopes to star in a film about the relationship between Ernest Hemingway and Martha Gelhorn in the 1930s. I'm a Hemingway fanatic myself, and this period interests me. I think it was Gelhorn who got Hemingway back on track as a writer after his years kibbitzing with Pauline Pfeiffer's money. So, I'm looking forward to that film. Hope it's better than In Love and War.

Cheers, Guys.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Just out of interest, I was in the middle of watching it when I read this thread!

It's superb!

PS - has anyone seen "The Two Jakes" (1990 Sequal).

H.

 

[jake_fink]

TWO JAKES

Yes. It's better than I realized when it came out, but it's no Chinatown.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

HJ,
I agree that the nostalgia doesn't seem to weigh the film down, that it feels real. That's the problem with some period films though, that the signs of the period are forefronted and naturalism is lost. I don't know if you're a Sopranos fan, but this is the final season and a half coming up, and in the press for it James Gandolfini mentioned one of his projects. He is producing and hopes to star in a film about the relationship between Ernest Hemingway and Martha Gelhorn in the 1930s. I'm a Hemingway fanatic myself, and this period interests me. I think it was Gelhorn who got Hemingway back on track as a writer after his years kibbitzing with Pauline Pfeiffer's money. So, I'm looking forward to that film. Hope it's better than In Love and War.

Cheers, Guys.

I didn't know that about Gandolfini, but I am happy to hear it. (I don't know about him playing Ernest, but we'll leave that for another day.) Recently, a project with Anthony Hopkins playing Hemingway was scrapped. I would like to see a good film about Ernest. We'll have to talk more about Hemingway...

"The Two Jakes" I have not seen because I equated it with "The Godfather III," but I think I will give it a look now that it has come up.

 

[Mr. 'H']

My opinion exactly. I enjoyed it too (it ain't no Chinatown though).

 

[Feraud]

What can one say about Chinatown without first saying, "Excellent movie!"
The clothes, casting, directing, music and story are all top notch.

Nicholson, in this film, is the heir to Bogart's Sam Spade. Also, the film doesn't allow its nostalgia to weigh it down or to obstruct the plot. It feels very real.

Correct on both points, H.J.
Nicholson's J.J. Gittes is certainly the continuation of the quintessential "private dick" made famous by Bogart or Powell.
The film strikes me not as a "Period Film" but rather one that takes place in certain time and place. The clothes and cars are not harped on as "Retro" but they are background elements that flesh out the accuracy of the time period.

Regarding the ending of the film, I cannot imagine another one. Nothing could sum up the mood of the any more than when Lt. Escobar ecorts Gittes away with the words, "forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.." I believe that was how it ended...

 

[Michael Mallory]

"Chinatown" in my opinion is one of the two most perfect films ever made (the other is "The Adventures of Robin Hood"), one in which absolutely nothing is out of place or extraneous. It demands to be watched again and again, since it takes minimum two viewings to really get a grasp on what's going on, not to mention all the little details. (It took me three before I finally got the significance of that bit toward the beginning where Jake's assistant reported that Mulwray and Cross were arguing about an "apple core"). My favorite little detail is the almost subliminal glimpse of a SAG card as Jake rifles through the purse of the phony Evelyn Mulwray. As for the ending, Towne's original was actually a happy one, with Jake and Evelyn embracing for the fade out, but Polanski wouldn't hear of it. The filmed ending, and the famous line (which is delivered by the Joe Mantell character) was reportedly written by Polanksi and Nicholson the day before it was shot.

 

[Rigby Reardon]

I saw The Two Jakes, but believe it or not, I never saw Chinatown! The Two Jakes was just on HBO one night, and I started watching. (I really recalled it being called 'Return To Chinatown', but that could have been me mis-remembering, because I can't find any such phrase connected w/ The Two Jakes on imdb.)

At the time it struck me as seedy and disatisfying, but I really didn't know the genre at the time...in retrospect, it fits, and it wasn't half bad. But I couldn't tell you how it compares to or complements Chinatown...guess I'll have to rent the original now.

 

[Michael Mallory]

"Return to Chinatown" might have been an advertising slogan, but it was always called "The Two Jakes." The first attempt at it was in the mid-1980s, with Nicholson and "Chinatown" producer Robert Evans as the other Jake, directed by writer Robert Towne, but that imploded after less than a week of shooting of shooting. "Two Jakes" is all right, it has its moments, but it's no "Chinatown." The thing is, if you haven't seen "Chinatown," there's a lot of it that simply won't mean anything.

 

[The Wolf]

Chinatown/Two Jakes

Rigby, shame on you. You definately should have seen "Chinatown" first. The sequal relates so much to the first that I imagine it would be tough to understand.
I found a lot of the people that didn't like "The Two Jakes" hadn't seen "Chinatown" in a long time, consequently they missed parts of the story. I still think "Chinatown" was better but "Jakes" is good.
Here's a funny thing, Darryl Zwerling, who played Mulwray, also played a 1930's character in a movie the next year.

The Wolf

 

[jake_fink]

Here's a funny thing, Darryl Zwerling, who played Mulwray, also played a 1930's character in a movie the next year.

Ham in Doc Savage?

 

[Quigley Brown]

The local theater screened it a while back. I dressed like this (although this image is a bit altered) and they let me in free...

 

[Mr. 'H']

(It took me three before I finally got the significance of that bit toward the beginning where Jake's assistant reported that Mulwray and Cross were arguing about an "apple core").

OK, so now that you've figured that out, would you mind filling in the rest of us please?!!

 

[jake_fink]

Apple core = Albacore, the name of the club on Catalina Island that Noah Cross owns, the front for his land-grab scheme, a banner from which appears in the quilt made by the old girls at the Alta Vista retirement home.

Quigley,

Glad you mentioned that the picture was altered. If it wasn't, I'd bet you get into a lot of places for free, just because the ticket sellers couldn't bear looking at that acromegalic mug.

:cheers1:

 

[Rigby Reardon]

Rigby, shame on you. You definately should have seen "Chinatown" first. The sequal relates so much to the first that I imagine it would be tough to understand.
I found a lot of the people that didn't like "The Two Jakes" hadn't seen "Chinatown" in a long time, consequently they missed parts of the story.

Yup, I know, I agree completely in retrospect. The only good news is I saw Jakes so long ago that I forgot most of it. Except for Madeline Stowe that is... ...and unfortunately, I remember the ending!

Really have to rent them both now...hmm.

 

[MudInYerEye]

My unpopular opinion.

CHINATOWN seems to be one of the most highly regarded films among my friends and associates. Overall I enjoyed the movie very much, I have it on dvd and watch it every year or so. What bothers me very much about the movie tho is the extreme precision of the writing. I find myself paying way too much attention to the the script, and feeling virtually no empathy for the characters. You can almost hear the typewriter clacking as the story progresses. It's cold, and put together like a mathmatical equation. It seems only John Huston's performance was powerful and alive enough to escape Towne's long, lingering shadow.
CHINATOWN is far too self-conscious of itself and has been vastly overrated. There are many films of the same period that may not be as "deep", but are just plain better. BARRY LYNDON, THE CONVERSATION, NIGHT MOVES, PAPER MOON, even Huston's FAT CITY just to name a few.

 

[jake_fink]

CHINATOWN seems to be one of the most highly regarded films among my friends and associates. Overall I enjoyed the movie very much, I have it on dvd and watch it every year or so. What bothers me very much about the movie tho is the extreme precision of the writing. I find myself paying way too much attention to the the script, and feeling virtually no empathy for the characters. You can almost hear the typewriter clacking as the story progresses. It's cold, and put together like a mathmatical equation. It seems only John Huston's performance was powerful and alive enough to escape Towne's long, lingering shadow.
CHINATOWN is far too self-conscious of itself and has been vastly overrated. There are many films of the same period that may not be as "deep", but are just plain better. BARRY LYNDON, THE CONVERSATION, NIGHT MOVES, PAPER MOON, even Huston's FAT CITY just to name a few.

Hi Mud,

All the movies you named - except Barry Lyndon which I don't like - are excellent films, but I really disagree with your assessment of Chinatown. Over the years Chinatown has come to be viewed as an example of the classic (three act) film script, thanks mostly to hacks like Syd Field and Robert McKee. Perhaps, with this in mind, it affects the way we view the film. You say you don't feel any empathy for the characters, and then cite Huston's performance as being the standout - does that mean you feel empathy for his character? Anyway, I don't have any problem with the performances or with Towne's screenplay, obviously, so, :cheers1:

Now... Barry Lyndon. That's cold!