Casablanca Suit

[dr greg]

dame

I can't remember what he calls her, but he is somewhat bitter and twisted at the start so he may well have.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Hem, Dana Andrews wears a very similar suit in 'Laura', slightly darker...
( thanks for the screen grab advice. need more practice ! )

That is a very nice suit as well. It's the drape that gets me.
(If you're using a lap-top, it is much easier if you plug in the full size keyboard. )

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Since Bogie's suit jacket was unbuttoned, it's arguable whether it's a drape suit.

However .... Dana Andrew's suit jacket is buttoned up, and it still drapes at the chest. I reckon that it's a drape suit. See below:

 

[Hemingway Jones]

You know, Marc, it almost looks too big, as if the flaps of the jacket are meeting too far away from his gut. Is this characteristic of a "drape suit?"

 

[herringbonekid]

i'm going to start noticing those little drape folds EVERYWHERE now.
i know it.

(you see this type of suit in LOTS of noir films)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

When you say "flaps", are you talking about the two folds that hang vertically from his shoulders down the sides of his chest?


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[Hemingway Jones]

I was speaking of the literal front of the jacket, where it buttons. Looks like there's a lot of room there.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

everything i've read about drape models suggests a nipped, but not extreme waist. So there shouldn't be so much billowing when the jacket is buttoned (i have convinced myself that it is indeed buttoned). I read an interesting thing in the Chenoune book re. drape:

In the scrupulous opinion of the American magazine Apparel Arts, however, the transplant did not always take very well. At many tailors, and especially in ready-to-wear, unfortunate interpretations and caricatures of the new Savile Row cut were produced. Such exaggerations overwhelmed the rare examples of quality cutting that conformed to the British spirit of moderation.

Perhaps this chap is wearing an "unfortunate interpretation" of the drape cut?

bk

 

[herringbonekid]

doesn't look bad to me. he just has the middle button done.with the top button done it would look cleaner. it's not super-fitted, but not too big either.

 

[scotrace]

Don't Forget

The Panama Hats of Casablanca.

 

[Tomasso]

It Looks To Be A Three-Roll-Two, No?

Actually, that's a three-button closure. Look at the market scene, you can see the top botton hole rolling over.

It's hard to tell.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It's a 3-button roll. You can even see the top buttonhole. (Look closely at the image, about halfway down the breast pocket and to the left.)

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[Tomasso]

It's a 3-button roll. You can even see the top buttonhole. (Look closely at the image, about halfway down the breast pocket and to the left.)

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I know that there's three buttons but I was wondereing if the jacket was cut with the intention that the top button be left unbuttoned.(3-roll-2).

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It often depended on the preference of the wearer. Ivy Leaguers of the golden era (and today!) preferred to wear their sack suit jackets rolled to the middle button, as in the photo above.

The finer suits of that era had top buttonholes that were finished on both sides. That way, the wearer could choose whether to wear the lapel rolled to the top button, or down to the middle button.

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[Tomasso]

The finer suits of that era had top buttonholes that were finished on both sides. That way, the wearer could choose whether to wear the lapel rolled to the top button, or down to the middle button.

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Generally speaking, the lapels of a 3-roll-2(as pictured above) are not tailored for the top button to be buttoned(though I cant speak to the sack since I've no experience with that ilk).

And, Oxxford still makes all their buttonholes on both sides.

The Oxxford Make
Hand Buttonhole


The Oxxford Clothes buttonhole is sewn by hand on both sides of the cloth instead of the outside alone, really two buttonholes, one on top of the other, for durability and impeccable appearance. Since buttonholes are used so often, Oxxford contests that this is the only way to finish the coat properly.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Interesting, Tomasso. On some older suits, such as those made by "Brooks Brothers" before the '60s, I've noticed that only the top button was finished on both sides; the middle and bottom buttons were finished only on the outside.

Noting in the '60s that its preppy customers almost always wore their lapels rolled to the middle button, "Brooks Brothers" stopped finishing both sides of the top button, and instead finished only the inside of the top button. (With the lapel rolled down, the inside would in fact face outward.)

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[Tomasso]

And, Just In Case The Horse Is Still Breathing

Additionally, tailors have said that to properly rework a 3-roll-2 to a 3 requires quite a bit of tailoring, as the canvas in the lapels must be reworked(reformed through pad stitching, which is used to create the lapel's memory) all the way up to the collar. And, it takes a good tailor to do this well.

 

[Mr. Rover]

I have a 60's 3-button SB prep suit, and its lapels are rolled to the middle button. It's just a preference. When my friend got his suit made in Hong Kong, I asked the tailor for a 3-button suit rolled to the middle button (my friend knew nothing about suits and this was my preference). \
Hemingway, could the skirt of his jacket be touching because he seems to be leaning forward in those pictures? If not, what you're saying could be true. There should be a little bit more spread there, even though they would be practically parallel to eachother. Personally, I think Mr. Andrews' suit is ill-fitting in that movie. The sleeves are too long are too long and the shoulders appear to be too wide for him. I guess he can't pull off the Hollywood drape look.

 

[matei]

Great thread!

Outstanding research lads. :eusa_clap

If only I had access to a tailor who listens to me and an endless source of funds...

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Hemingway, could the skirt of his jacket be touching because he seems to be leaning forward in those pictures? If not, what you're saying could be true. There should be a little bit more spread there, even though they would be practically parallel to eachother.

I'll have to take another look. You learn a lot analyzing these things scene by scene.