Carter Detachable Sweatbands

[Joshbru3]

There has been mention of this sweatband numerous times on the lounge, but there isn't a thread dedicated to it. I personally think that this way of attaching sweatbands is really neat. Because there is some give in the sweatband, they tend to conform to ones head much nicer than a regularly stitched sweatband. At least from my experience. Also, if a hat needs to be cleaned in naptha, re-blocked, or worked on, the sweatband can taken out and put aside until the renovation is done. I just think that Carter was on to something and the idea is very cool.

U.S. Patent: 1977983 (Issued Oct 23, 1934)

Canadian Patent: 354269 (Issued 11-19-1935)


US PATENT

The Canadian patent can be found here:

http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/354269/summary.html?type=number_search


Its interesting because in Carters original patent, it shows the sweatband being attached by a good amount of buttons and then the sweatband ends connect almost like a belt. In the woman's hat drawing, the sweatband is attached by 5 buttons and the sweatband seem is stitched together.

In both my Stephen Stetson and Biltmore Sky Rider the sweatband is attached by only 5 buttons and both have sweatband seams that are stitched. I can not find an updated patent for this updated mens hat design. There is one button in front, one button on each side, and then two buttons in the rear.

Biltmore Sky Rider

Stephen L. Stetson Olympic Quality

*Interesting side note....the original patent number for the Carter Detachable sweatband in the U.S. was 1977983, however the printing on the Stephen Stetson most definitely says 1877983. That patent number belongs to explosion chamber for Holtzwarth Gas Turbine Co. I am unsure if this mistake was corrected or not, but after looking at the sweatband a dozen times, it most definitely has the wrong patent number printed.

 

[Joshbru3]

Here's a couple posts from past threads about other hats with Carter Sweatbands......


This one is from Bill

Got this green guy today. An Extra Quality Twenty. Has an embroidered liner tip and a Carter detachable sweatband. Also Cav edge and wind trolley. Someone must have checked all the options boxes.

B

 

[Joshbru3]

Here's Bart's Stephen Stetson

I have a vintage Stetson I bought on ebay. It has the wide Whippet style bound edge and the 'pleated' style bow. It is gold embossed in the sweat 'british weight' and also it has the words 'detachable leather' which has lost the gold embossing on the sweat and the sweat isn't stiched on in anyway but has a pin front, back and either side that holds it and you can pull the sweatband away from the hat all around except where the 'pin' holds fast. Anyone know anything about this lid?[huh] I will post some hat pics shortly

 

[Joshbru3]

And here's a really neat Cavanagh from Robert

Sorry, it is a Carter but a little different from the others I've seen.

 

[Mystic]

*Interesting side note....the original patent number for the Carter Detachable sweatband in the U.S. was 1977983, however the printing on the Stephen Stetson most definitely says 1877983. That patent number belongs to explosion chamber for Holtzwarth Gas Turbine Co. I am unsure if this mistake was corrected or not, but after looking at the sweatband a dozen times, it most definitely has the wrong patent number printed.

Josh, This post had me scratching my head and looking for a bigger magnifying glass to look at the sweat in my SS until I got down to this part.

My SS has a Pat.No. 1.87.7.983 5 buttons and sewn sweat in back.

 

[danofarlington]

Either that, or the Carter sweatband has hidden capabilities that you haven't discovered yet. Avoid open flames with that hat.

 

[Mystic]

Either that, or the Carter sweatband has hidden capabilities that you haven't discovered yet. Avoid open flames with that hat.

I think I better check the batteries in my smoke alarm again....:scared:

 

[Joshbru3]

Here's another beautiful example of a Carter Sweatband from XPLSV:

About six months ago I experienced great disappoint when a light colored fur felt Cavanagh in long oval, which I had won on OFAS, never arrived through the mail. Supposedly lost. Got my money back quickly, but have been very disappointed about the whole thing ever since.

Last week I won a Cavanagh Panama off another, smaller, auction site. I didn't have a whole lot of info on it and never got a reply to my questions, but I bid anyway. It arrived today and I was pleased with what I pulled out of the box.

The box itself was in great shape'

The hat has a night tight weave, no broken strands, and only some mild dirt from the ages'

When I first looked under the sweatband, the first thing that happened was the 7 1/4 size tag crumbled into three pieces. The sweatband itself is in good shape and the straw fibers don't feel brittle. I found two small metals discs, as shown in the photo, with the word Carter on them. One on each side--at first I thought it was just support for the bow but when I saw the other one, I was guessing just overall sweatband supports. There's some pencil marks under the attachment area for the one, you can see some of the initials. Appears to be ACA and then TGC.

When I looked under the front of the sweatband, I saw the Carter company imprint, so I guess they must have been doing blocking and sweatband installation for Cavanagh. I'm not familiar with the name, perhaps someone else is?

The hat is a 7 1/4. Although my wife said it seems to "fit you fine," it does ride high on my head and I have no intent of placing this one on the stretcher. Been thinking this is a good candidate for a cleaning and reblocking. If I went to a 7 3/8, any line from the current brim crown juncture would surely be covered up by the sweatband...at least that is my guess. Brim is about 2 1/4" right now, the crown just shy of 5".

Bernie

 

[Landman]

Besides making the sweatband conform easier to somebody's head shape it seems this system would speed up production too. I'm surprised more companies didn't use it.

 

[AbridgedPause]

Would it be possible to re-upload the pictures of this type of sweatband? I'd love to see it!

 

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

I'd love to see pix of that type of sweatband also!

 

[Redfokker]

My Stephen L. Stetson has one of these. I suppose that Stephen didn't mind using Cavanagh's designs, hell, he stole the Stetson name
This little fedora has become a beater, I wear it at the theater while building sets and working in the yard. The little buttons are attached by stitches to the body of the hat, you supposedly could change the sweat out by this attachment. Mike Miller at NW Hats worked on this hat, but didn't want to screw with this cool sweat system.

 

[AbridgedPause]

Has anyone successfully removed this type of sweatband? On mine the buttons are so tight that I'm afraid to bust them off or rip the paper lining.

I'd love to know how long these were manufactured for.

 

[M Hatman]

My Stephen L. Stetson has one of these. I suppose that Stephen didn't mind using Cavanagh's designs, hell, he stole the Stetson name
This little fedora has become a beater, I wear it at the theater while building sets and working in the yard. The little buttons are attached by stitches to the body of the hat, you supposedly could change the sweat out by this attachment. Mike Miller at NW Hats worked on this hat, but didn't want to screw with this cool sweat system.

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Red,
That hat is awesome!
As to Stephen L Stetson, he did not "steal" the name. It was his name, he was a grand nephew to John B Stetson....
More on all that here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stephen-l-stetson-hats.39021/
I know this is a older contribution....have seen your new ones.....glad to see you around again....missed you!
Mark

 

[Redfokker]

Red,
That hat is awesome!
As to Stephen L Stetson, he did not "steal" the name. It was his name, he was a grand nephew to John B Stetson....
More on all that here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stephen-l-stetson-hats.39021/
I know this is a older contribution....have seen your new ones.....glad to see you around again....missed you!
Mark

Thanks Mark! Stetson sure thought he was "stealing" their name! My SLS is now a fun work hat, keeping the Carter sweat. Actually, Mike Miller was a little scared to try to remove and replace it, so we just cleaned it up and left it.

 

[M Hatman]

Thanks Mark! Stetson sure thought he was "stealing" their name!

YES he did...Family fights are sometimes the best!!!

My SLS is now a fun work hat, keeping the Carter sweat. Actually, Mike Miller was a little scared to try to remove and replace it, so we just cleaned it up and left it.

Well it is fun to have something different.....and a cool serviceable result besides!!!
It was a nice addition and story for this thread!!!
M

 

[AbridgedPause]

I posted some pictures of my Biltmore hat with a Carter detachable sweatband in the Classified section, if anyone want's some closeups of what it looks like
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/biltmore-gray-fedora-7-1-4-late-50s.96296/