Canadian Boss of the Plains No. 1 Quality -Boer Wars? WW II? more contemporary?

[Rick Blaine]

I think I can see faint vestiges of a Montana Peak there.

 

[monbla256]

Do you have any provenance to go with the hat? have you researched the crest badge as to Country and age? The attachment manner for the brim at the side does not look as I've seen other military issued slouch hats as they usually had some sort of metal hook and loop fixture on the brim and crown. Looks like it may be an older Stetson made to look as a military slouch hat.

 

[Dinerman]

The hat is Canadian. The "Brockville" on the sweatband refers to Brockville, Ontario. The Brockville Stetson plant was acquired by Stetson in 1930 and was demolished in 1973. There is a photo of it on this page. I *think* the badge depicts the king's crown, which puts it before 1952, but I shouldn't think very much before. The sweatband looks 1940s to my eye. If you look at the remnants of the crease, you'll see that it's done the Canadian way, 45 degrees off how American campaign hats are creased.

Now as far as who the National Troopers were, I'm afraid I can't help you. There are a few mentions of them on the internet if you do a google search, but it seems mostly people with things like this trying to figure out the same sort of question.

 

[edwineidschun]

wow,looks so cool.i like it so much.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Thanks!

The hat is Canadian. The "Brockville" on the sweatband refers to Brockville, Ontario. The Brockville Stetson plant was acquired by Stetson in 1930 and was demolished in 1973. There is a photo of it on this page. I *think* the badge depicts the king's crown, which puts it before 1952, but I shouldn't think very much before. The sweatband looks 1940s to my eye. If you look at the remnants of the crease, you'll see that it's done the Canadian way, 45 degrees off how American campaign hats are creased.

Thanks D-Man, I knew you would come through. Do you thing there might have been any connection to Magill Hats, across Lake Ontario?

Here is a bit of discussion from a badge collectors forum.

They seem to think it (the badge on a Canadian hat) to be pre-war, pre QE II.

Now as far as who the National Troopers were, I'm afraid I can't help you. There are a few mentions of them on the internet if you do a google search, but it seems mostly people with things like this trying to figure out the same sort of question.

Yeah, me too neither, precious little info out there on this org. [huh]

 

[Dinerman]

With the equestrian theme on the button, and that it's a Canadian hat creased in a Canadian manner, I would think some kind of offshoot of the RCMP as opposed to a British organization as the badge collector website suggests. I don't think this branch of Stetson had anything to do with Magill Hats.

 

[monbla256]

'Till you find out about the "National Troopers" badging, looks like you have an RCMP Campaign hat that has been somewhat altered. The method of attaching the brim up to the side at the crown just does not jive with the manner it was done on other British, OZ, and Kiwi military hats of the period which makes me hesitant to say it was an original military hat for that unit. You've got some research to do

 

[DNO]

Aside from the Brockville reference, I have a hard time seeing a Canadian connection with this hat. The badge is the British coat of arms, not the Canadian. The enamelled badge looks fairly modern.

Perhaps it is some kind of civilian, paramilitary organization. Definitely not Canadian Forces or, prior to that, the Canadian Army nor any Canadian police service.

 

[masiaka]

Aside from the Brockville reference, I have a hard time seeing a Canadian connection with this hat. The badge is the British coat of arms, not the Canadian. The enamelled badge looks fairly modern.

Perhaps it is some kind of civilian, paramilitary organization. Definitely not Canadian Forces or, prior to that, the Canadian Army nor any Canadian police service.

Given the British coat of arms this could still be a pre-1970s Canadian dress hat from before the integration of the Canadian armed forces. Many Canadian regiments had their start as local branches of the British Armed Forces for defending the Canadian colonies against the US. It's entirely likely that they kept their original badge even after becoming a part of the new Canadian Army in 1940. There's a South African "highlanders" regiment in Cape Town that wears kilts and plays bagpipes despite not having any actual British born Scots in it for more than 100 years.

My guess is that the Canadian Corps of National Troopers was a police organization like the US marshals or an infantry Gendarmerie in the same way that the North West Mounted Police (now called RCMP) were a cavalry Gendarmerie.

Edit: I don't think that's the British Coat of Arms. It's very similar, but the crown at the top is wrong. It's also not the English Coat of Arms (same as the British, but with the same crown as this badge) because the English coat of arms doesn't have a small lion on the crown. I think the badge on the Nat. Trooper hat badge was derived from the English coat of arms, probably because the unit's colonel-in-chief was from the royal family of England.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Given the British coat of arms this could still be a pre-1970s Canadian dress hat from before the integration of the Canadian armed forces. Many Canadian regiments had their start as local branches of the British Armed Forces for defending the Canadian colonies against the US. It's entirely likely that they kept their original badge even after becoming a part of the new Canadian Army in 1940. There's a South African "highlanders" regiment in Cape Town that wears kilts and plays bagpipes despite not having any actual British born Scots in it for more than 100 years.

My guess is that the Canadian Corps of National Troopers was a police organization like the US marshals or an infantry Gendarmerie in the same way that the North West Mounted Police (now called RCMP) were a cavalry Gendarmerie.

Edit: I don't think that's the British Coat of Arms. It's very similar, but the crown at the top is wrong. It's also not the English Coat of Arms (same as the British, but with the same crown as this badge) because the English coat of arms doesn't have a small lion on the crown. I think the badge on the Nat. Trooper hat badge was derived from the English coat of arms, probably because the unit's colonel-in-chief was from the royal family of England.

:eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eusa_clap

THANKS!

And an abundant welcome to you, my friend. A former Canuckastainian?

 

[monbla256]

:e
THANKS!

And an abundant welcome to you, my friend. A former Canuckastainian?

Again I'd have to say it looks to be a genuine Canadian Stetson and was probably a RCMP campaign hat but there's BIG questions as to the badging attached to it. You did not say if you owned this hat and if so, what provenance was supplied? What is a Canuckastainian? My family is Cannadiene from Quebec and I've heard of Canadians from the English speaking Provinces but never THAT phrase

 

[DNO]

I've collected Canadian militaria for over 40 years. Canadian army units don't use the British coat of arms...and certainly haven't since the Victorian era. There is, however, a great fondness for the maple leaf as a badge.

Although there certainly was a Canadian Corps of Guides...a distinguished unit, certainly...I've never heard of a Canadian Corps of National Troopers. The crown, coincidently, is fine...it's just not the current crown. Again...I'd lean toward some sort of civilian unit.

The RCMP connection with the hat itself is entirely plausible. The leather hat band is certainly very similar to the RCMP hats and I believe that Stetson did, indeed, supply the Mounties at one point. There are Mountie collectors that would certainly know more about that than me.

It's the badge that is a big question mark...the hat itself looks good.

No-one knows everything and I could be in error, but that's the way it looks to me.

 

[DNO]

While I'm here, I may as well use this thread to show off my Boer War slouch hat...hope you don't mind. The hat was worn by a Toronto member of the 48th Highlanders who didn't manage to squeeze his way into the official 2nd Bn RCR contingent going off to South Africa (there was intense competition to get into this unit and very limited space). He ended up paying his own way to South Africa (as a number of Canadians did) and joining up with the 48th's sister unit, the Capetown Highlanders. As a member of the Highlanders, I believe he served with Kitchener's Horse during the war. After, he returned to Canada and served in the First World War with the 15th Battalion, CEF. I am lucky enough to have his uniforms and some accoutrements from both conflicts. An interesting character...much research still to be done!

(My apologies for leading you off topic!)

 

[Rick Blaine]

Again I'd have to say it looks to be a genuine Canadian Stetson and was probably a RCMP campaign hat but there's BIG questions as to the badging attached to it. You did not say if you owned this hat and if so, what provenance was supplied?

Agreed. I do not yet own it & the supplied provenance was slim to none.

What is a Canuckastainian? My family is Cannadiene from Quebec and I've heard of Canadians from the English speaking Provinces but never THAT phrase

A Canuck, a Canadian national. Something those crazy kids invented (young whippersnappers) e.g.-

Afghan -Afghanistan

Pakistani -Pakistan

Canuck -Canuckistan

My nephews (in Calgary) were using it some years ago. I am sure it is terribly passe' now, eh?

I can't wait for it to arrive. I am getting it from a guy out of Ontario. My search for info on the Rangers has been largely fruitless, but I am reasonably certain it is a BOtP model.
My resource of last resort is my Father in Law, a lifelong (82 & mean) Calgarian Cowboy, who can tell you what he had for breakfast on July 22 1954. If anyone knows, Jerry'll know. A walking compendium of Canadian history...much of it in the first person, at least out west.

Interestingly -I have the exact same band, on a Canadian made Stetson, that looks like trolley ticket taker or something else vaguely Municipal -a metermaid! LOL.

 

[Rick Blaine]

I've collected Canadian militaria for over 40 years. Canadian army units don't use the British coat of arms...and certainly haven't since the Victorian era. There is, however, a great fondness for the maple leaf as a badge.

Although there certainly was a Canadian Corps of Guides...a distinguished unit, certainly...I've never heard of a Canadian Corps of National Troopers. The crown, coincidently, is fine...it's just not the current crown. Again...I'd lean toward some sort of civilian unit.

The RCMP connection with the hat itself is entirely plausible. The leather hat band is certainly very similar to the RCMP hats and I believe that Stetson did, indeed, supply the Mounties at one point. There are Mountie collectors that would certainly know more about that than me.

It's the badge that is a big question mark...the hat itself looks good.

No-one knows everything and I could be in error, but that's the way it looks to me.

Thanks for the info! The hat looks solid. The badge is the question. Nice slouch, BTW, with a super backstory!

 

[DNO]

Thanks...in all my years of collecting, I've only seen two Boer War slouch hats on the market: a South Africa Constabulary hat and this one. I missed the first one (a lot of Canadians served in the SAC). Boer War stuff is rarer than hens teeth up here.

 

[monbla256]

rick,
My cousins up in Montreal would not like that one for sure !! But then they won't speak English, ( they can) only French and figure Canada ends at the western border of Quebec

 

[Rick Blaine]

Thanks fellas

rick,
My cousins up in Montreal would not like that one for sure !! But then they won't speak English, ( they can) only French and figure Canada ends at the western border of Quebec

If I lived in Montreal I would feel the same way, sorta like that new Yorker cover, ya' know.

Montreal-wow- we were up there three Halloweens ago.
What a lovely, friendly city. A clean, polite Franco-Canadian New York~ impossible to find a bad meal- cannot be done! Whatta great food town. I'd live there in a second, should that rich, unknown Uncle die.

Thanks...in all my years of collecting, I've only seen two Boer War slouch hats on the market: a South Africa Constabulary hat and this one. I missed the first one (a lot of Canadians served in the SAC). Boer War stuff is rarer than hens teeth up here.

I am always on the hunt for collectibles with an Alberta/Calgary/Canadian West connection. That is why I jumped at this despite certain ambiguities, (size, age, origin).
I need a Brock's Rangers Badge, I have a Southern Alberta Regiment, Calgary Highlanders & a Rocky Mnt. Rangers. I REALLY need an Alberta Americans badge (211th cef)!
I may have been born on the Iowa/Dakota border, but I will-with God as my witness, die a Canadian. :canada:

 

[masiaka]

:eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eusa_clap

THANKS!

And an abundant welcome to you, my friend. A former Canuckastainian?

Thanks for the welcome! I'm a little bit of a military historian so I know how to guess at the story of things given a few clues, but I don't really know much about 1800-1950 and the commonwealth isn't really my area of expertise. I'm just a southern boy from Alabama, USA, with a black belt in Google Fu and a little too much time on my hands.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Never EVEN been to Canada, but I've read a lot of the British Empire's history. The British use two different crowns on their insignia depending on whether the current Monarch is a boy or a girl, the King's Crown and the Queen's Crown. They swapped over n the mid-1950's when King George the VIth died. Canadian governmental bodies would have followed suit where applicable. Like mentioned above, the Canadians use the Maple leaf quite a bit now and have for a long time.

Later