Can someone help me to date this vintage N3B parka?

[Quarter]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here! Hopefully this is the right place to post this.

I recently moved to NYC from a tropical country, and I'm trying to adjust to the cold here. I did some research and decided on a vintage N3B USAF parka on eBay. I have yet to make the purchase, but I'm close to doing so. Before I make the jump, I'd just like to find out if anyone else knows how to date this vintage piece? It's manufactured by Lancer Clothing and it says synthetic fur on the label. Not sure if that would help your guesses, if any?

Do you guys think this would be a good purchase, or would I be better off with an Alpha Industries slim fit N3B parka? Pictures of the vintage parka below.

 

[Cocker]

Looking at the DSA number, should be from 1974. And it's also corresponding with the firsts 13 digits NSN.

 

[Quarter]

Looking at the DSA number, should be from 1974. And it's also corresponding with the firsts 13 digits NSN.

Ah I see! Thanks for the response!

Judging by the synthetic fur lining, do you think it's missing a chunk of fur? I'm not sure if it's just me, but it looks a little different than some other vintage N3B parkas I've seen.

 

[Cocker]

I don't think so, I've seen N3B with the band without fur between the lining and the edge of the hood.

 

[Quarter]

I don't think so, I've seen N3B with the band without fur between the lining and the edge of the hood.

Ah I see!

Sorry if this is a dumb question, so if it doesn't have a DSA number, does that mean it's not genuine or can't be dated? I also saw another vintage N3B parka on sale on eBay (picture at the bottom), but I can't seem to find its DSA number:

 

[Twelve O'Clock High]

Hello, the 1st N-3B you showed is actually from 1974, Lancer being one of the main contractors for that period. The gap between the white fur trim and the pile in the hood is normal. I have a brand new N-3B from Lancer (1979 dated) that shows the same gap. Sizes X-small are pretty uncommon though.

The second one is an original as well, Albert Turner was a big brand for USAF flight clothing in the 50's and 60's. The contract date on the label does not appear, since the label coding used at that time was different. The DSA number system appeared only in 1962. It means this N-3B was made before 1962. Likely somewhere between 1958 and 1961. I have an Albert turner from 1957 that is a "MIL-J-6279C". What is important is the letter at the end of the specification number, in this case D (MIL-J-6279D). These are the changes in the construction and quality of the parka. The latest specification number I know of is MIL-J-6279K (from March 1987).

The N-3 is spec. 3110
The N-3A is spec MIL-J-6279
The N-3B goes from MIL-J-6279A to MIL-J-6279K

Until the early 60's the tags were black with silver or gold embroidered letters. With the DSA number system, they started to use the cheaper white tag with black printed letters, still in use today.

They have had different names too :

- JACKET,AIRCREW,HEAVY,ATTACHED HOOD,TYPE N-3B : MIL-J-6279A to MIL-J-6279E
- JACKET,FLYING, MAN'S NYLON TWILL : MIL-J-6279F
- JACKET,FLYING, MAN'S EXTREME COLD WEATHER,TYPE N-3B : MIL-J-6279G
- JACKET,FLYING, MAN'S、N-3B MODIFIED : MIL-J-6279H(1)
- PARKA,EXTREME COLD WEATHER, TYPE N-3B : MIL-J-6279H to MIL-J-6279K

You can spilt the N-3Bs in 3 big families :

- Nylon Shell, wool insulation, real (wolf or coyote) fur trim (until the mid 60's)
- Cotton shell, wool insulation, real (wolf or coyote) fur trim (late 60's early 70's)
- Cotton shell, polyester insulation, synthetic fur trim (mid 70's till today)

I much prefer the wool insulation, they are much warmer, and give a better shape to the parka.

The synthetic ones are lighter, more flexible, but IMO the fake fur trim looks awfully cheap. They also tend to age worse than the wool insulated ones.

Nylon or cotton blend outer shell is a matter of preference (I like both).

For the "cotton" shell, I know of 4 different materials :

80% cotton / 20% nylon (the most common and the nicest material, looks like a thick poplin)
50% cotton / 50% nylon (same fabric used in M65 field jackets, a bit too soft IMO)
65% cotton / 35% nylon (less common, seems to be more on late 80's and 90's parkas)
100% cotton (the one they use on modern N-3Bs)

Now you just have to find the right one for you

 

[Philalethes]

Great first post, Twelve O'Clock!

Quarter, if you hold out and look around, you should be able to find one with the real fur and trim, and a wool interlining. I found one in decent shape for $50 a few years ago. I don't find the coat itself as warm as I would have thought, but that mouton hood is seriously warm.

I do not have the number handy, since I am having the zipper replaced, but from what I recall from my research, my coat was one of the last to be made of natural materials - in the late seventies.

 

[Quarter]

Now you just have to find the right one for you

Twelve O'Clock, wow thank you so much for that detailed response! I really appreciate it, learnt quite a few things myself!

I finally did purchase an N-3B from eBay, and I thought it was a steal at just $39 (even though it's missing a button in front and the zip is a little wonky).

Below is a photo of the tag for it, and it's a MIL-J-6279G! It also says "JACKET, FLYING, MAN'S CTN WARP AND NYLON FILLING OXFORD, USAF SHADE 1509" with a DSA number of DSA-1-9110, but I can't quite guesstimate which decade it would be from. If I have to guess, it's late 60s or early 70s? I'm also trying to guess if it's using a synthetic fur or real fur -- my guess is it's real fur, cos otherwise it would say synthetic fur explicitly on the tag, right?

Great first post, Twelve O'Clock!

Quarter, if you hold out and look around, you should be able to find one with the real fur and trim, and a wool interlining. I found one in decent shape for $50 a few years ago. I don't find the coat itself as warm as I would have thought, but that mouton hood is seriously warm.

I do not have the number handy, since I am having the zipper replaced, but from what I recall from my research, my coat was one of the last to be made of natural materials - in the late seventies.

Oh man, yeah I was trying to find one with a real fur and trim as well. Finally just jumped the gun last week, since I needed it asap for NYC's erratic cold!

Your coat sounds amazing!

 

[Twelve O'Clock High]

Seems that you found an interesting model. The Type N-3B modified refers generally to series that were made at the end of the Vietnam war. They are generally dated (as far as I know) around 1972, and are made of 80/20 cotton nylon outer shell with wolf/coyote fur trim and wool insulation. The specificity is that some (mine is a Lancer Clothing model,
JACKET,FLYING, MAN'S、N-3B MODIFIED : MIL-J-6279H(1), dated 1972) are made with an olive green outer shell; instead of the classic sage green, but the plastic buttons are sage green. The other one is the more common sage green outer shell (Cotton / nylon blend), but the liner is made out of camouflage fabric, same pattern as ERDL (or leaf pattern), used on combat uniform during the Vietnam war.

To come back to yours, I never saw a "modified" MIL-J-6279G. I would be glad to see more pictures of it.

The DSA-1-9110 number would be 1965. $39 for it sounds like a very good deal.

 

[Quarter]

Seems that you found an interesting model. The Type N-3B modified refers generally to series that were made at the end of the Vietnam war. They are generally dated (as far as I know) around 1972, and are made of 80/20 cotton nylon outer shell with wolf/coyote fur trim and wool insulation. The specificity is that some (mine is a Lancer Clothing model,
JACKET,FLYING, MAN'S、N-3B MODIFIED : MIL-J-6279H(1), dated 1972) are made with an olive green outer shell; instead of the classic sage green, but the plastic buttons are sage green. The other one is the more common sage green outer shell (Cotton / nylon blend), but the liner is made out of camouflage fabric, same pattern as ERDL (or leaf pattern), used on combat uniform during the Vietnam war.

To come back to yours, I never saw a "modified" MIL-J-6279G. I would be glad to see more pictures of it.

The DSA-1-9110 number would be 1965. $39 for it sounds like a very good deal.

Hey Twelve O'Clock,

Yeah this model certainly seems slightly different than the others. And it was certainly a good deal! Thanks for the very detailed historical explanation, that was very fascinating. Glad to hear that mine possibly has a wolf/coyote fur trim!

You can check out more pics of the N-3B I bought here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MIL...PW4FfACsucjE5Eqytovy4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

These aren't great pics unfortunately.

 

[Doctor Damage]

I much prefer the wool insulation, they are much warmer, and give a better shape to the parka.

The synthetic ones are lighter, more flexible, but IMO the fake fur trim looks awfully cheap. They also tend to age worse than the wool insulated ones.

Thinking out loud, I wonder why the USAF switched from wool insulation to poly? I'm sure cost probably had something to do with it, but those jackets date from the days when wool wasn't extremely expensive like it is today. And I doubt the USAF would have decided that keeping warm no longer mattered.