Cads on the subway

[klind65]

Leaving the gravid, elderly, and those of broken limbs out of this:

Women, on the whole, made a choice about forty years ago that they wanted to be (and rightfully) considered as strong as men and this means both physically and emotionally. Men might not have liked it, but they accepted it (eventually) and now this is the world we live in. Don't think men aren't confused by it, because we certainly are as the natural order of male-female relationships that has been the same for some million years has now been turned upside down over night, so we're still unsure of what, exactly, women want. Do you want to be thought frail? Well, some of you do, but 95% don't and are quite vocal about it (even getting nasty when a door is held and a seat is offered), and so I have to defer to the majority. This is out of respect. It's what women wanted. Sure, I know there is still that 5% that wants to be thought frail, but I risk offending a good 95% by a pompous chauvinistic act of chivalry.

Certainly, I would not relinquish my seat to an able-bodied man my age and younger (and unless he's got a cane, even elderly men really don't want your seat because the worst thing you could suggest to a man is that he's had his time) and if women are equal, then I have to expect they want the same treatment. Or perhaps they don't. Maybe if we could put the genie back in the bottle and get back to the way things were, everyone would be happy again.


Regards,

Jack

I was talking with a friend yesterday who reminded me of another aspect to all of this which illustrates and explains the confusion and resentment some men feel in the wake of women's pursuit of "equality". She pointed out that, although the majority of women simply wanted equal opportunity to education and employment in lines of work for which they were well-suited, some "fringe" or "radical elements" interpreted equality LITERALLY to mean the sexes were the same physically, which we know can never be the case. When women insisted they be let into professions for which they were not suited, society as a whole suffered. To illustrate: Women wanted to be firemen OK, "firewomen" - better yet, " firefighters"- just as men were. Well, the requirements of the entrance test (i.e. the maximum amount of weight one can carry?) proved too much for them. So, instead of wisely realizing this was a task better left to men, they demanded the standards be lowered to accomodate them! Now, I don't know about you, but if I am to be rescued from a burning building, I sure as heck want someone strong enough to carry me.

This illustrates the "suspension of disbelief" required by a society to, on the one hand, pretend to ignore the physical differential and then go to such ridiculous extremes to satisfy this misinterpretation of the much beleagured , "equality" on behalf of women who can't accept that they can never be the same as men.

'Tis true that sometimes to restore to balance a system or ideology which has been out of balance, it is necessary to go too far in the opposite direction for a while. As regards this issue, I hope it will soon be time to return from the extreme black and white view and resume a more realistic view for the good of society as a whole.

 

[Elaina]

I don't know of any firefighter test where ALL applicants don't have to lift a 185 lb. dummy through a window, women included, or that they have different marks to pass the exam.

 

[Paisley]

I don't know what upper body strength has to do with riding a train, unless you are hauling yourself into a boxcar or helping your fellow hobos to do so.

 

[Feraud]

I don't know what upper body strength has to do with riding a train, unless you are hauling yourself into a boxcar or helping your fellow hobos to do so.

:eusa_clap A conveniently overlooked piece of common sense that I noted a few pages back.

 

[*Schatzi*]

I don't know what upper body strength has to do with riding a train, unless you are hauling yourself into a boxcar or helping your fellow hobos to do so.

That gave me a good laugh. It's so true.

Anyways, back in the day Victorian times for sure probably even earlier yes women were considered delicate and not as strong as men...but it also had to deal with the fact they were wearing verrry tight corsets. Women were likely to faint if it was too stuffy or hot in a room. Plus, those of us ladies who have ever worn a boned corset or a tight girdle know it can be quite the feat to bend over or lift anything. Plus, long dresses etc. were not very helpful either as pants were not considered the norm for women to wear. So, all of this made women even more delicate (physically) than men. I mean if you are a man and you are observing women fainting and not being able to move very well you are gonna help them with the door or offer them you seat. I think tradition just stuck.

Now, I am not delicate really in any way. I am 5'9" and 170 pounds but I can honestly say it is such a nice pleasant surprise when a man holds the door for me or offers me his seat on the bus. It never fails to brighten my day and make me feel like a woman. Maybe that sounds cheesey, but it is nice to feel feminine in the society nowadays where it just isn't quite the same as it used to be. I must say a date that holds the door for me or opens the car door gets instant brownie points.

 

[reetpleat]

That gave me a good laugh. It's so true.

Anyways, back in the day Victorian times for sure probably even earlier yes women were considered delicate and not as strong as men...but it also had to deal with the fact they were wearing verrry tight corsets. Women were likely to faint if it was too stuffy or hot in a room. Plus, those of us ladies who have ever worn a boned corset or a tight girdle know it can be quite the feat to bend over or lift anything. Plus, long dresses etc. were not very helpful either as pants were not considered the norm for women to wear. So, all of this made women even more delicate (physically) than men. I mean if you are a man and you are observing women fainting and not being able to move very well you are gonna help them with the door or offer them you seat. I think tradition just stuck.

Now, I am not delicate really in any way. I am 5'9" and 170 pounds but I can honestly say it is such a nice pleasant surprise when a man holds the door for me or offers me his seat on the bus. It never fails to brighten my day and make me feel like a woman. Maybe that sounds cheesey, but it is nice to feel feminine in the society nowadays where it just isn't quite the same as it used to be. I must say a date that holds the door for me or opens the car door gets instant brownie points.

If it is that hard to bend at the waist, I will make sure to offer my standing room on the bus or subway to any woman having to endure the strain of sitting down. I will of course, vacate my space by taking on the rigors of sitting.

 

[C-dot]

I don't know of any firefighter test where ALL applicants don't have to lift a 185 lb. dummy through a window, women included, or that they have different marks to pass the exam.

My fiancé is a firefighter - the test is standard for everyone, and if you can't do it, you're out.
I'm a pretty small person, and I know female soldiers much smaller than me that could throw their burly male counterparts across a parade square without breaking a sweat. Ladies do tend to be smaller than men naturally - but its not set in stone, no matter who you are. Neither does it mean that some tasks are better left to men...

 

[*Schatzi*]

If it is that hard to bend at the waist, I will make sure to offer my standing room on the bus or subway to any woman having to endure the strain of sitting down. I will of course, vacate my space by taking on the rigors of sitting.

haha...not quite what I meant. I corset wearing ladies are few and far between and I don't really mind standing. Then again I don't usually take the bus.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I don't know what upper body strength has to do with riding a train, unless you are hauling yourself into a boxcar or helping your fellow hobos to do so.

Or she wants to bully my ill bred body out of my seat on the Lex Line.

"EyE" Carumba body builder and sometimes firefighter

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Did you really have to go and ruin my dinner darlin'?

 

[Babydoll]

I've seen both here- a lot of stores have the pregnant women parking spaces. They're pink

They have those here, too. They call them Stork Parking. And while I'm expecting our first little one early next year, I just can't see myself using them. I'm very able to walk from a normal parking spot and leave it for someone who truly cannot walk that far.

 

[Paisley]

Good for you! I've known people who used other people's handicap placards out of sheer laziness and orneriness. I hope your pregnancy continues to go well.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Good for you! I've known people who used other people's handicap placards out of sheer laziness and orneriness.

They are probably the ill-bred ones...I park in a handi spot all the time...lol

 

[Paisley]

Anyways, back in the day Victorian times for sure probably even earlier yes women were considered delicate and not as strong as men...but it also had to deal with the fact they were wearing verrry tight corsets. Women were likely to faint if it was too stuffy or hot in a room. Plus, those of us ladies who have ever worn a boned corset or a tight girdle know it can be quite the feat to bend over or lift anything. Plus, long dresses etc. were not very helpful either as pants were not considered the norm for women to wear. So, all of this made women even more delicate (physically) than men. I mean if you are a man and you are observing women fainting and not being able to move very well you are gonna help them with the door or offer them you seat. I think tradition just stuck.

I don't know the history of giving up one's seat for a lady, but this makes the most sense to me. (Granted, I've skipped or skimmed the most of the purple prose in this thread.) I think it's like the custom of a man walking on the street side of the sidewalk to protect a woman from out-of-control horses: a custom necessary at first, then superfluous, then dropped by most.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't know the history of giving up one's seat for a lady, but this makes the most sense to me. (Granted, I've skipped or skimmed the most of the purple prose in this thread.) I think it's like the custom of a man walking on the street side of the sidewalk to protect a woman from out-of-control horses: a custom necessary at first, then superfluous, then dropped by most.

I had always heard the sidewalk thing was to protect the ladies from bedroom pots being emptied out second story windows into the gutter below. I imagine such a custom might also have had much to do with the compulsory wearing of hats by gentlemen.

 

[klind65]

Now, I am not delicate really in any way. I am 5'9" and 170 pounds but I can honestly say it is such a nice pleasant surprise when a man holds the door for me or offers me his seat on the bus. It never fails to brighten my day and make me feel like a woman. Maybe that sounds cheesey, but it is nice to feel feminine in the society nowadays where it just isn't quite the same as it used to be. I must say a date that holds the door for me or opens the car door gets instant brownie points.

Absolutely! Thanks for stating what (should be) the obvious.:eusa_clap By the way, it's not "cheesy", it's spot-on! This game of brinksmanship women want to play with men has caused us to lose the "little" courtesies and kindnesses whose real value we only notice once they are gone.

 

[klind65]

Or she wants to bully my ill bred body out of my seat on the Lex Line.

"EyE" Carumba body builder and sometimes firefighter

...Ah yes, Carlisle Blues, I would expect nothing less from you. Next I suppose you'll honor us with a photo of a man giving birth. "Vive La Difference".

 

[Paisley]

I had always heard the sidewalk thing was to protect the ladies from bedroom pots being emptied out second story windows into the gutter below. I imagine such a custom might also have had much to do with the compulsory wearing of hats by gentlemen.

Reetpleet once said that was why gentlemen used to walk on the building side of the sidewalk. Raging horses, flying waste, it's a toss-up.

It's a little like this debate: offer your seat (if you're a man) to respect women as ladies, or don't offer it to respect them as equals (and because many will decline it anyway). If a man feels he shouldn't sit while ladies stand, maybe the best thing to do is simply get up and move to the back.

 

[MisterCairo]

I don't know what upper body strength has to do with riding a train, unless you are hauling yourself into a boxcar or helping your fellow hobos to do so.

"Are any of you gents smithies? Or are any of you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts?"

- Ullyses Everett McGill

 

[Paisley]

This game of brinksmanship women want to play with men has caused us to lose the "little" courtesies and kindnesses whose real value we only notice once they are gone.

"Nobody," said Eleanor Roosevelt, "can make you feel inferior without your permission." If a man drops his manners--whatever they may be--because a woman works or studies in a mostly-male field, then he is full of self-doubt and lacking in character. We shouldn't be very flattered when such a man trots out his best behavior.