Buco j27 jackets - originals and repros

[trapp]

It should also be noted that the one shown previously with the lower "flap pocket" ( lost worlds and the web pic from Trapp ) is a J-15 if I'm not mistaken

J-15? I didn't even know a J-15 model existed. Lost Worlds calls that jacket the J-27 and, at least as I read it, their site implies that it's the original version; perhaps it's just their default pattern or more popular version. Regardless, they refer to the 'top flapper' as the variant. Can you share more about the J-15?

Ace - thanks for coming through!

 

[trapp]

If you're planning to get one, mind you there are two versions - with or without belt loops.

The plot thickens. The horsehide 'low flapper' that I posted shows belt loops - as do all the top flappers I've seen. Lost Worlds (sorry I keep referring to LW - they just happen to offer the only J-27 repros that I know of) also places belt loops on both of their versions.

Ace, I wonder if you have come across a few J-27 that simply had the belt loops removed aftermarket. I came across at least one on ebay that did not have belt loops, but clearly did at one point - and the seller acknowledged the jacket had been modified.

 

[nick123]

Flippin' gorgeous, all of them.

 

[Plumbline]

The Buco two models which were very similar ( male and female ) .. and were only available in the mid-1950's ( from 1954 I believe ) - the female model was called the "J15 - Style Queen" and the male model the "J27 - Style King" it was not a Police jacket and as such did not have the badge holes punched in the pocket flap ( the numeric description did not have the P of the PJ-27 ( police jacket ) and rather carried the J27-M number).

If you check out the lost worlds photo it indeed does not have the punched holes on the pocket flap ..... in addition another tell tale is the fact that the J-15 had a stud fasten cuff strap - which neither the J-27 nor the PJ-27 had ( but both the LW one and the vintage one you pictured do ) although this could easilly have been added or removed. The LW one also omits the Mutton collar studs. The J-27 and J15 had a unique wide double belt loop as std. the PJ-27 could be sopecified with ( for duty belt worn outside the jacket) or more often than not wothout ( duty belt worn inside jacket)

Note Brooks, Ralph Edwards, and others copied the J-27 shamelessly in the late 1950's as it became the M/C cop jacket of choice. These are often mistaken as PJ-27's but the Buco pocket is quite distinctive and more often than not the studs for attaching the mouton collar were missing as many didn't provide this as an option.

There is a great pic of the J-15 on p106 of Rin Tanakas " Motorcycle Jackets - A century of leather design"
There is also a 1954 advert for both the J-15 and the J-27 in both p104 of RT " Motorcycle Jackets - A century of leather design" and also P87 of RT "Motorcycle Jackets - ultimate biker fashions.


I think I need to get out more


HTH

 

[Seb Lucas]

Note Brooks, Ralph Edwards, and others copied the J-27 shamelessly in the late 1950's as it became the M/C cop jacket of choice. These are often mistaken as PJ-27's but the Buco pocket is quite distinctive and more often than not the studs for attaching the mouton collar were missing as many didn't provide this as an option.


HTH

Brooks didn't copy as such, Brooks was started by Joseph Bugeleisen of Buco as an offshoot or contractor, sharing designers and patterns.

 

[Monitor]

Ace, thank you for the answer and yes, thanks for taking the time to share these beauties with us!

 

[trapp]

Thanks Plumbline. I don't have the Rin Tanaka books but after reading your info-dense post a few times it's beginning to make a sense.

If you check out the lost worlds photo it indeed does not have the punched holes on the pocket flap ..... in addition another tell tale is the fact that the J-15 had a stud fasten cuff strap - which neither the J-27 nor the PJ-27 had ( but both the LW one and the vintage one you pictured do ) although this could easilly have been added or removed.

To clarify, this jacket below is a J-15, and designed as a woman's jacket? I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

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[trapp]

It can be hard to find shots of the back of the PJ-27.

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[trapp]

PJ-27 without belt loops.

Stop me if this gets annoying

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[Plumbline]

See Dinermans catch re. the size label pic PL 12/09)... . it's a J-27 as opposed to a PJ-27 with cuff straps added.

It could very well be a J-27 Style King with added cuff straps but most of the J-27M's I've seen didn't have the cuff straps and had zip cuffs. The model would be on the label ... and the size would be a ladies size e.g. 10/12/14 rather than the 38/40/42/44 of the style king jacket

J-15 Style Queen ( lower pocket, no badge punch holes, double belt loops and cuff straps ... short body ( pocket flap to bottom of jacket- and arm length)- ladies equiv of the J-27 Style King ( lower pocket - no police badge punch holes, double belt loops ) or the PJ-27 ( high chest pocket , punch oles for badge and single width belt loops or no belt loops ( but inner belt loop attachments)

A good example of the J-15 here :

J-15 Jacket


( note the halfbelt style back on the J-15 and NO INSIDE BELT LOOP whereas the J-27 had the typical PJ-27 style back.)

It also looks like the belt loops were an aftermarket addition on the 2nd jacket .. they look lile Buco fixings but don't have the typical Buco symmetry.

 

[trapp]

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[trapp]

I'm about to pull the trigger on the above - can anyone confirm it's authentic?

: )

 

[Dinerman]

It's Ralph Lauren.

 

[Dinerman]

1955 versions of these models. The one in post 10 is a j27, not a j15. The size 42 tag in the photo is a dead giveaway.

 

[trapp]

Joking about the RL (blue polo tag).

I love the old advert - the Style King and Style Queen both look great.

 

[trapp]

Dinerman, what's your take on the Ralph Edwards labelled PJ-27-style jackets?

It's been suggested earlier in the thread that those were merely copies of the Buco jackets. But some claim that these jackets were indeed made by Buco but contracted out to sell with the Ralph Edwards label -- and that there are other 1950s police issue PJ-27 Bucos that have different retail sales / sporting goods store labels.

 

[Plumbline]

Good catch Diner ... didn't see the size tag pic before ( didn't even see the size tag pic before ) .. so I concur it is a J-27. As per previous comments the J-15 would have a female size 10/12/14/16 etc.

One this that had surprised me about the Buco jackets is how few of the snap on Mutton collars have survived .. now I know the Mutton can be fragile but I see so few of these around and nearly all ( I think I've see an handful at best in 20 odd years of looking at these) are sold without the snap on Mutton collar.

Any thoughts .... does someone have an attic full of Buco snap on Mutton collars waiting for the inevitable rush ???

 

[Plumbline]

Trapp .. I'm sure the Diner will have a comment ( and he's the resident expert on vintage jackets TBH) ... from what I have seen Buco contracted to supply Ralph Edwards / Brooks and Reed and also manufactured for Sears Roebuck and particularly Sears own M/C brand Allstate ( thre are various articles which define this). The Brooks, Ralph Edwards and Reed PJ and J-27 STYLE jackets that I have seen have been subtly different from the Buco ones e.g. two handwarmer pockets, single belt loops or no belt loops, squarer chest pocket flap, stud cuffs on the ralph Edwards etc.) ... but the Allstate J27 style ones have been almost identical to the Buco ones which leads me to believe that Buco manufactured for Allstate directly to the Buco pattern.

Just MHO and I'm sure there are much more learned experts out there who can add.

HTH

 

[Bunyip]

Love these threads. Fantastic stuff.

 

[trapp]

An example of a Brooks "PJ-27 style" jacket. I think this helps illustrate Plumbline's observation concerning differences that might be found between PJ-27 inspired jackets - and the true Buco PJ-27.

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