Britishisms sneaking into American vernacular

[sheeplady]

I spotted the article on Aunty's website a few days ago and the only thing that made me frown was that the word "ginger" was being adopted. As a redhead having sustained years of verbal abuse due to my dark auburn hair, I find the word in context of hair colour as offensive as the other word that the same letters can spell out. Within the UK, I have a belief that it's ancient anti Brythonic Celt sentiment that was the root cause of the anti-redhead nonsense. I certainly can vouch for the fact that Edward I is still being cited as a reason for anti-English sentiment in Wales nowadays which demonstrates how long grudges can be held for.

I've never heard of the term Ginger in the U.S. except for an episode of South Park (an adult cartoon). Here being a red-head has very little stigma attached- plenty of women dye their hair red- the only stigma attached is added sexuality (redheads are supposed to be hot). In the south park episode, it referred to red-haired freckled kids with pale skin. I think the term being adopted over here is meant to refer to coloring but without the negative connotations; because I don't think people in the U.S. are aware of the history of anti-redhead sentiment. When I've mentioned the stories I have heard about how redheads are discriminated against in the UK, I've gotten nothing but disbelief from other people in the U.S.

I never actually knew that red-haired individuals were discriminated against in the UK until I actually joined the FL, because it rarely happens over here. There is some discrimination of individuals for assumed nationality (some of which is based on coloring) and there apparently has been a few incidents with kids after the South Park episodes aired, but other than that, I have never heard of some of the things happening in the U.S. that I have heard happen in the UK.

I have chestnut hair (so dark brown with a lot of red highlights) and pale skin with freckles and except for everyone assuming I'm Irish (I'm not) my coloring has never been an issue. Even when people assume I'm Irish it has always been complimentary. Although I do get a lot of people running up to me on Saint Patrick's day and showing off their St. Patty's day outfit and I have had quite a few men try to pick me up assuming I'm Irish. (Seriously, their pickup lines included something like "you're Irish, right sweetie?")

 

[MikeBravo]

Doh! ... though what the Romans did for us I can't remember!

What have the Romans ever done for us

[video=youtube;ExWfh6sGyso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso[/video]

 

[Louise Anne]

It's nice to see a few ladies join in with this from the UK reading what they say have I feel unwittingly made have made my point, as I wrote on my face book page I have not the time to go around in circles and going off at strange angles, so if you do not understand my point I politely suggest you go back and read what the other UK ladies have said and see if you can spot it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've never heard of the term Ginger in the U.S. except for an episode of South Park (an adult cartoon). Here being a red-head has very little stigma attached- plenty of women dye their hair red- the only stigma attached is added sexuality (redheads are supposed to be hot). In the south park episode, it referred to red-haired freckled kids with pale skin. I think the term being adopted over here is meant to refer to coloring but without the negative connotations; because I don't think people in the U.S. are aware of the history of anti-redhead sentiment. When I've mentioned the stories I have heard about how redheads are discriminated against in the UK, I've gotten nothing but disbelief from other people in the U.S.

I'd never heard the "ginger" thing in my life until a few years ago, when I started hearing the kids at work talking about how "eww, gingers are evil, they have no souls." I didn't know what they were talking about until they explained it was a thing from "South Park." We had a large family of red-headed Irish kids on my block when I was growing up and we never called them anything but "the O'Briens." Seems to me any stigma that now exists here owes itself almost entirely to the TV show.

 

[Dubya]

As an Essex guy living in These United States, I try to do my part to spread British culture.

Nice one!!

But tell me, does it translate into 'American'? Do they use that word over there?
Shame you can't use that reg over here. I would love to get me Germans on a plate like that for my motor!!

 

[esteban68]

that'll be BRUFF as in GRUFF!

HEY! About that 'Brough'??? (LOL)

 

[esteban68]

It is true about the 'Ginger' thing, I've often seen/heard redheads being abused certainly as a child it happened, the redder the hair the worse it got, not sure it's an ancient thing it's just plainly obvious that bright red hair is erm different, also it's probably one of the few things that kids/people in general can use to vent their angry spleens at something without being bashed by the PC brigade, it also happens if you are short, I should know at 5'7" had grief for years but like several 'shorties' you get your own back by being brighter, wittier or just plain banging them one in the mouth if it goes too far, it's a real pig getting shirts to fit though oh and all my trousers have to be taken up.
Thers a chap at work and he has red, red hair , we were chatting the other day and he stated that at school in the 90's he was always made to stand at the back or given the rubbish positions at PE as the teacher hated red heads!
BTW I love red hair it's great and far better than rubbish old boring brown...I am glad I've gone a bit grey here and there as I get plenty of good comments now about the salt'n' pepper look!

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

There's the expression to be "beaten like a redheaded stepchild."
Also see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red headed stepchild

by Lancashire-born Ada Jones in 1909...

[video=youtube;9JfCy1m-Epc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JfCy1m-Epc[/video]

 

[Tomasso]

It's nice to see a few ladies join in with this from the UK reading what they say have I feel unwittingly made have made my point....... I politely suggest you go back and read what the other UK ladies have said and see if you can spot it.

I have perused the posts of every UK member and it appears that you are the lone objector. And you offer no explanation in your posts. [huh]

As a Brit, I too am not sure how this thread is offensive.

I have to admit that I don't find anything in this thread as offensive but that's me......

 

[sheeplady]

I'd never heard the "ginger" thing in my life until a few years ago, when I started hearing the kids at work talking about how "eww, gingers are evil, they have no souls." I didn't know what they were talking about until they explained it was a thing from "South Park." We had a large family of red-headed Irish kids on my block when I was growing up and we never called them anything but "the O'Briens." Seems to me any stigma that now exists here owes itself almost entirely to the TV show.

I've heard of anti-Irish sentiment against people who are assumed to be Irish by their coloring. I've never personally witnessed it, but I have heard of people getting the harsh end of Irish stereotypes. I live in an area that is heritage-wise very heavily Irish, so it's not uncommon to hear these stories, but I think it's also uncommon to actually see it yourself (a smart person assumes if you live around here you're part Irish). The only time I've heard the term ginger in person (not on the television) is from someone who was just describing someone's coloring, without any judgement added.

I think kids with anything that is unusual can be picked on- and red hair certainly qualifies. However, I don't think it's anywhere nearly as systematic as what happens in the UK. I've heard adults in the UK that have been taunted, assaulted, burnt, etc. for their red hair. That just doesn't happen here, at least not to redheads. I just hope it doesn't start- red hair is lovely.

 

[esteban68]

"However, I don't think it's anywhere nearly as systematic as what happens in the UK. I've heard adults in the UK that have been taunted, assaulted, burnt, etc. for their red hair. That just doesn't happen here, at least not to redheads. I just hope it doesn't start- red hair is lovely. "

Even over here it's no where near as bad as the media would have you believe certainly no worse than any other stereotyped/ labelled bullying, I think some groups will always find a 'reason' to be 'picked on'.....I can honestly say I've never heard of anyone coming to serious harm through being 'ginger' it's just leg pulling really that can occassion go to far perhaps.
I don't know why it is even called ginger where does it come from because a piece of root ginger isn't ginger coloured unl;ike oranges which when ripe are definately orange!

 

[esteban68]

She's a real doll by the way in a retro 1930's sort of way, when I first saw her in True Blood I was bowled over...sigh!

There's the expression to be "beaten like a redheaded stepchild."
Also see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red headed stepchild

by Lancashire-born Ada Jones in 1909...

[video=youtube;9JfCy1m-Epc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JfCy1m-Epc[/video]

 

[vitanola]

Another one of my favorites that I use a fair amount is "naff."

Is the adjective form "NAFFI"?

 

[stephen1965]

How bona to vada your eek! (how good to see your face)

I just wondered if the US lounge members were aware of the Polari language..ostensibly a ‘gay’ slang, once used widely in the theatre but also by sailors in British Merchant Navy and by others. This language/slang isn’t used much nowadays but some of the words and expressions have crossed over into the mainstream such as ‘naff’…also used in "naff off!" to mean “get lost!” or “clear off!”
Is the word "Zhoosh" used in the US at all, meaning to spruce up or smarten up…as in ‘You’ve zhooshed up (your outfit)…now you have a bona drag”?
A woman might “Put her slap on in the khazi” which would be to apply make-up in the restroom.

I'm sure there must be some American cryptolects which have become mainstream...any examples?

p.s I've not heard of naff as coming from naafi..but its etymology is uncertain
"If naff is from Polari, as in phrases like naff omi, a dreary man, it’s most probably from the sixteenth-century Italian gnaffa, a despicable person".

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've heard of anti-Irish sentiment against people who are assumed to be Irish by their coloring. I've never personally witnessed it, but I have heard of people getting the harsh end of Irish stereotypes. I live in an area that is heritage-wise very heavily Irish, so it's not uncommon to hear these stories, but I think it's also uncommon to actually see it yourself (a smart person assumes if you live around here you're part Irish). The only time I've heard the term ginger in person (not on the television) is from someone who was just describing someone's coloring, without any judgement added.

I'd never heard of Irish people being classified as "ginger" -- around here most of the Irish are what they used to call "black Irish," with dark hair and olive skin, which is part of my own ancestry, so we tended to identify a red-haired person as red-haired rather than Irish. If there was a red-haired Celtic stereotype I knew about growing up, it was that Scots were red haired, bad tempered, tight-fisted, and liked to play golf.

The only Irish stereotypes that are common around here are class oriented rather than complexion-oriented -- we had "Shanty Irish" and "Lace-Curtain Irish," which are pretty much self-explanatory.

The most "ginger-looking" people I ever knew were of pure Norweigian descent -- red hair, pale skin, and freckles for everybody in the family. And not a drop of Irish blood that anyone knew of.

 

[esteban68]

I first remember hearing naff off in Porridge where it was one of Ronnie Barkers catchphrases IIRC?...pretty sure its got nothing to do with NAFFI?
Also used by Kenneth Williams and the other chap( can't remember his name) in 'Round the Horne'

Apparently used by the gay community BITD in reference to heterosexuals who were not available,....Here you go http://www.polari.org.uk/

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Naff

1. naff
British slang, today meaning uncool, tacky, unfashionable, worthless... or as a softer expletive, in places where one might use "****" as in "naff off", "naff all", "naffing about".*

Origins of the word are disputed, but it appears to have come from Polari (gay slang), used to dismissively refer to heterosexual people. It was introduced as a less offensive expletive verb ("naff off") in the '70s UK television show, Porridge. "Naff off!" was famously used by Princess Anne in 1982.

2. naff
September 1, 2011 Urban Word of the Day
British slang, describes something that is stupid, lame or unpalatable.
That party was naff — they ran out of beer, and the people were way too uptight.

3. naff
1. Of poor quality - in particular, tacky or obvious in some way.
2. Can be used in virtually any context that "f***" can (but not used to denote coitus) only way classier, and sounds much better.
1. That song is SOO naff
2. naff off, I can't be naffed, stop naffing around, etcetera

 

[esteban68]

LizzieMaine, Now I think of it I don't know any people with Irish ancestry that are red heads and I know quite a few Irish people, they are as you say all olive skinned or pale skinned with dark hair as are many 'Scots' I know.

 

[vitanola]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Naff

1. naff
British slang, today meaning uncool, tacky, unfashionable, worthless... or as a softer expletive, in places where one might use "****" as in "naff off", "naff all", "naffing about".*

Origins of the word are disputed, but it appears to have come from Polari (gay slang), used to dismissively refer to heterosexual people. It was introduced as a less offensive expletive verb ("naff off") in the '70s UK television show, Porridge. "Naff off!" was famously used by Princess Anne in 1982.

2. naff
September 1, 2011 Urban Word of the Day
British slang, describes something that is stupid, lame or unpalatable.
That party was naff — they ran out of beer, and the people were way too uptight.

3. naff
1. Of poor quality - in particular, tacky or obvious in some way.
2. Can be used in virtually any context that "f***" can (but not used to denote coitus) only way classier, and sounds much better.
1. That song is SOO naff
2. naff off, I can't be naffed, stop naffing around, etcetera

As opposed to "NAFFI":

[video=youtube_share;Igpk2ePGhnU]http://youtu.be/Igpk2ePGhnU[/video]

[video=youtube_share;GoEvvHkYKLE]http://youtu.be/GoEvvHkYKLE[/video]

[video=youtube_share;6rWDN9BIqrA]http://youtu.be/6rWDN9BIqrA[/video]

 

[sheeplady]

I'd never heard of Irish people being classified as "ginger" -- around here most of the Irish are what they used to call "black Irish," with dark hair and olive skin, which is part of my own ancestry, so we tended to identify a red-haired person as red-haired rather than Irish. If there was a red-haired Celtic stereotype I knew about growing up, it was that Scots were red haired, bad tempered, tight-fisted, and liked to play golf.

The only Irish stereotypes that are common around here are class oriented rather than complexion-oriented -- we had "Shanty Irish" and "Lace-Curtain Irish," which are pretty much self-explanatory.

The most "ginger-looking" people I ever knew were of pure Norweigian descent -- red hair, pale skin, and freckles for everybody in the family. And not a drop of Irish blood that anyone knew of.

There is an assumption here that if you are a redhead, you're of Irish descent. If you have red hair, you're assumed to Irish; blond you're Polish; brunette you're Italian, etc. It's not an assumption I'd make (because I fall outside those things and have for years had my ancestry assumed incorrectly), but it happens here. That might be because those cultures heavily settled the area, and chances are if you guess those 3 ancestries for anyone (even someone who is not white) you're going to be right on at least one. They are stereotypes, anyways, and we know how accurate those are- basically not at all. Yes, there is a large population of red-headed Irish here, but there are redheaded Italians and redheaded Poles. Facts don't seem to change deeply held stereotypes. I'm not going to detail the actual stereotypes of the various cultures that float around my community, because needless to say they are wrong. It's part of society's really sad need to carry on the hate that existed in previous generations- when you can't tell someone is of "x culture" by their accent, their church, or how they eat and you really need to snub them- you find something else to use as a key for their nationality so you can still do it.

Even over here it's no where near as bad as the media would have you believe certainly no worse than any other stereotyped/ labelled bullying, I think some groups will always find a 'reason' to be 'picked on'.....I can honestly say I've never heard of anyone coming to serious harm through being 'ginger' it's just leg pulling really that can occassion go to far perhaps.
I don't know why it is even called ginger where does it come from because a piece of root ginger isn't ginger coloured unl;ike oranges which when ripe are definately orange!

The examples I gave are actually people's experiences that they shared in a thread on this forum (several years ago). One woman said that the worst that happened to her is a bunch of people attacked her and tried to light her hair on fire.