British leather jackets from BEFORE the 1950s?

[himelator]

Thanks for joining the discussion, Dave.

I think in the UK, suedette means a thick-ish cotton or rayon fabric with a sort of suede-like, almost slubby texture. We seem to like adding '-ette' to our faux fabrics - as in leatherette. A bit of spurious French legitimacy? I had a suedette jacket once: it had a really nice heavy rayon-ish handle.

thats weird..there was a product that shows up here that was a leather that was "washable" suede that I had seen refered to as suedette in some ads. It was some kind of dupont treated leather during the "dupont" gets into the miracle fabric business time, lol. I have to go look around to find that one

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Thanks for getting stuck in. This is an interesting addition to the history of water-resistant cotton that's unfurling slowly elsewhere on FL. It's a maze of TMs and Rs.

yes, it is.

I'm going through my reference books and am finding a few pictures of people wearing leathers from the 20s through the 40s. I'll scan them over the next couple of days and get back to the thread.

Also, does Australia count as "British"? I have a few Australian reference picture books too.

bk

 

[himelator]

Thanks for getting stuck in. This is an interesting addition to the history of water-resistant cotton that's unfurling slowly elsewhere on FL. It's a maze of TMs and Rs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather

yeah its gross but insta wiki... there also was quilon.. and other products which plasticized suede making it waterproof and washable...they say it was used only during the war lol I like the old ads you guys have a lot of time on your hands to research around! Im jealous...and procrastinating

 

[Mike1973]

More blouson style 'suedette' cycling jackets

http://www.cotswoldcycling.co.uk/kit_page.html

In fact the whole site has some cracking shots showing club cycling in the '30's
http://www.cotswoldcycling.co.uk/photo_gallery.html

Interesting there are no obviously leather jackets in any of these photos of club cyclists. As a cyclist myself a leather jacket would not be my first choice, but these suedette blouson style jackets look ideal... Maybe leather was more used in motorcycling?

 

[pipvh]

Mike, you beat me to it: I was just about to link to that very site...

 

[pipvh]

...and I'm trying to imagine plus-fours as cycling gear. Without success, it has to be said.

 

[Mike1973]

...and I'm trying to imagine plus-fours as cycling gear. Without success, it has to be said.

It's easier to cycle in plus fours than in a leather jacket.

 

[Creeping Past]

...and I'm trying to imagine plus-fours as cycling gear. Without success, it has to be said.

They obviate cycle clips.

 

[Cobden]

^^^^ lol lol lol ^^^^ HJ you do make me smile!

I have been thinking about workwear. I have an image in my head of a close fitted button front mandarin collared tube sleeved very plain utility garment maybe worn by coalmen or draymen (if that's the right term) but I can't find an image in evidence so maybe I just imagined the thing.

Pre-war motorcyclists wore leather trenchcoats - RFC hand me downs or similiar I think. The WW1 derived leather jerkins must have been popular as workwear.

What the Brideshead Revisited crowd wore must be a kissing cousins of Baron's wonderful jacket and flying coats.

But you are right - it seems easier to find an ancestor of the Donkey Jacket than a British working mans leather jacket.

I know the thing you mean. It's a sleeved waistcoat, but with a mandarin collar...

Bugger...now I have the same problem as you, as I don't know what it's called either

 

[pipvh]

I have exactly the same image in my mind's eye. Sleeved waistcoat, fairly big buttons, mandarin collar - heavy serge? Did I see them being worn, or only in photographs? Don't know. I've been thinking about coalmen and draymen and night-watchmen (and braziers in the street). But there's definitely some garment that used to be worn under the old leather army jerkins. Going to have to do some proper digging - this is really starting to bug me.

 

[Speedbird]

Whilst I agree there is a fabric thing worn under the leather jerkins.... but I swear there is a totally leather version ... somewhere! And common too... not obscure and isolated!

I have been searching for images of miners, railwaymen, dockers, truck drivers & mates ... even Fred Dibnah...... it's completely irritating now... :rage:

 

[Mike1973]

While going through my old cycling mags found this illustration that was a close-ish match to BK's jacket -

From 1936

Also, After going through about a dozen pre war and post war cycling mags, I could find no decent reference for leather jackets being worn - in either adverts or photos. The standard 'uniform' seems to be baggy plus fours and sixes, and either a continental style cycling jumper or the suedette type blouson jacket that we have already shown on this thread. While I wouldn't want to rule out that leather jackets were worn by cyclists, I'd say it was probably uncommon.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

but I swear there is a totally leather version ... somewhere! And common too... not obscure and isolated!

A totally leather version? Wouldn't that just be a jacket - a leather jerkin with leather arms?

Looking at "The World War 2 Tommy" book last night, there are several variations on the issued leather jerkin. Some with collar attached in leather, others with battledress tunic wool collar and arms attached.

bk

 

[Mike1973]

A totally leather version? Wouldn't that just be a jacket - a leather jerkin with leather arms?

Looking at "The World War 2 Tommy" book last night, there are several variations on the issued leather jerkin. Some with collar attached in leather, others with battledress tunic wool collar and arms attached.

bk

While stationed in Berlin in 1945 my uncle had a German tailor add sleeves to his issue jerkin using an old blanket.

 

[Speedbird]

A totally leather version? Wouldn't that just be a jacket - a leather jerkin with leather arms?

Looking at "The World War 2 Tommy" book last night, there are several variations on the issued leather jerkin. Some with collar attached in leather, others with battledress tunic wool collar and arms attached.

bk

lol lol lol ok Baron, I particularly enjoyed your demolition of my inept descriptive powers lol lol lol

Tired and late .... sigh

Mike, I agree, a leather cycling jacket does seem unlikely.... but I thought we were looking for leather jackets pre-1950's in general, and I think I am looking for specifically for British pre-war leatherjackets as workwear, although I am not sure anymore.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Sportswear is going to be your best bet of finding something, i think. I have some interesting pics to scan.

Also, have a look around fascist gatherings. I've seen some pics of rallies from Ireland (Owen O'Duffy et al.) where i think i see leather in the midst of the blueshirts … in the mould of Goebbels-type jackets. Can't be sure, though.

bk

 

[Mike1973]

Mike, I agree, a leather cycling jacket does seem unlikely.... but I thought we were looking for leather jackets pre-1950's in general, and I think I am looking for specifically for British pre-war leatherjackets as workwear, although I am not sure anymore.

Yep, we are both on the same thread, but where your chain of thought went down the workwear route, mine went down sportswear, specifically cycling, and pretty much drew a blank lol I'm looking forward to seeing what else turns up though

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Harry McGimpsey and Harry Langman in 1922:

Jimmie Guthrie, killed at the German motorcycle GP in 1937 …

And a couple of couples on their bikes/sidecars. Apparently the bike on the left is a middle 20s Norton.

bk

 

[Speedbird]

Those are the kind of early flying type jackets I was expecting to see. Makes me want a barnstormer coat all over again now ...

The mandarin collared tube sleeved plain thing - I've decided it must have been a U-boat jacket ........... not the half belt 3/4 length type though.

 

[pipvh]

Check out this thread from VLJ. LOTS of pre-war/wartime UK jackets...

http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4048