Bread in World War 2 Britain

[MirandaFern]

Mirandafern what different growing seasons we have from Texas to Minnesota. My season will definitely be done by October.

I used to live in michigan as a girl. So I am used to strawberries in june and snow in october. I planted my first round of tomatoes in early march, and my grandpa in ohio thought I had gone nuts.

 

[H.Johnson]

Not if you're a vegetarian, as I am - it's the first thing I think to grab!

I think the best part of this diet would be getting all that fresh veggie in most people (myself included but I am working on improvement) do not eat enough veg. Its the last thing you think to grab from your fridge of cuppard when hungry

 

[Land-O-LakesGal]

Not if you're a vegetarian, as I am - it's the first thing I think to grab!

Good for you I would much rather grab some chips than a carrot but I am working on it. I was a vegetarian for 12 years but when I was pregnant I really started craving meat and now it has become part of my diet.

 

[MikeBravo]

We don't really appeciate how lucky we are to have access to as much food as we want (just a shame a lot of it is unhealthy) in the West at least.

Though apparently in the first World War the average British army recruit grew an inch in height as for the first time they were getting three square meals a day

 

[H.Johnson]

L-o-L Gal,

A vegetarian diet isn't as healthy as people think. I have been veggie for 40 years and for 30 of those I haven't been allowed to donate blood as even with artificial supplements I don't have enough iron in my diet - a common problem among veggies and a basic health risk. If people don't want your blood (even in times of blood and plasma shortage) you know you've got a problem! The older you get, the more problems you have as veggie. Trust me, from my own experience you're better off with animal protein in your diet.

I think that dieticians (?) who make comments to the effect that the British war-time diet was healthier than the average diet today are looking at it from the wrong direction. They look at the presence of harmful ingredients in the modern diet rather than the absence of beneficial things in the wartime diet.

I'm sure there is too much fat and refined carbohydrate in most peoples' diets today, but in the 1940s and early fifties (i.e. the rationing period) most people (particularly children) simply didn't get enough calories and particularly enough protein. I grew up with people who had been through WW2 on the home front and the most common complaint was that they were constantly hungry - they simply didn't have enough of the right things to eat. In any case lot of the meat and fish that people were encouraged to eat at that time probably wouldn't be passed as fit for human consumption today.

 

[MirandaFern]

In all honesty, even in this day of abundance, people, veg or not, are still not getting everything they need. Because variety does not ensure that we make good choices. A lot of what we eat is devoid of nutritional value.

As for the nutritionalists, they are divided on this subject of the Ration Diet.

I'm going to have one of friends who is a nutritionalist look at the plan and find out what she thinks.

I'm also going to keep track of my daily intake of calories, fat, cholesterol, sodium, carbs, sugars, fiber, and protein.

 

[HepKitty]

L-o-L Gal,

A vegetarian diet isn't as healthy as people think. I have been veggie for 40 years and for 30 of those I haven't been allowed to donate blood as even with artificial supplements I don't have enough iron in my diet - a common problem among veggies and a basic health risk. If people don't want your blood (even in times of blood and plasma shortage) you know you've got a problem! The older you get, the more problems you have as veggie. Trust me, from my own experience you're better off with animal protein in your diet.

fftopic: I was a vegetarian (but not vegan) for 7 years but I never tried to donate blood, so I don't know if I was all that low on iron. now, I eat chicken fish and turkey, and still a lot of tofu (marinated and fried it's not too bad). I still avoid pork like the plague though, and eat very little red meat (maybe once a month) but I eat a lot of spring mix salad and I can donate blood (they set up down the hall from my office, it's hard to say no). I have to load up on Fe starting a couple days before though, because of my (lack of) size and general distaste for beef. but it can be done. oh, I take handfuls of vitamins and supplements too

 

[Land-O-LakesGal]

In all honesty, even in this day of abundance, people, veg or not, are still not getting everything they need. Because variety does not ensure that we make good choices. A lot of what we eat is devoid of nutritional value.

As for the nutritionalists, they are divided on this subject of the Ration Diet.

I'm going to have one of friends who is a nutritionalist look at the plan and find out what she thinks.

I'm also going to keep track of my daily intake of calories, fat, cholesterol, sodium, carbs, sugars, fiber, and protein.

Dont forget to blog and let me know where to look. I am very interested.

 

[H.Johnson]

If we are talking about the WW2 British diet, I think we need to bear in mind three things - the food ration was in a sense theoretical - having a ration for a food item didn't guarantee that one could actually get it. 'The ration diet' (scant as it seems in todays terms) was an ideal, rarely achieved by the average family. There are several reasons for this.

Except for people lucky enough to live in some country areas (where food was available and rationing was locally ignored on a wide scale) or in the Armed Forces and certain occupations, food of all types was in extremely short supply. Queuing (standing in line) for hours for common items such as bread and potatos was normal. Some families just were not able to fit their lives around this and were forced to go without as a result. Food was also expensive - with earning patterns disrupted by the war in spite of what one reads - many industries were closed down in war-time, while others flourished (the Lancashire cotton industry being a case in point).

If we are trying to imagine a war-time lifestyle, we shouldn't neglect the physical activity. Many civilians (except women in certain categories) were mobilised under the directed labour scheme. Few people drove for everyday purposes (fuel rationing) and public transport was widely disrupted. So, walking or cycling quite long distances was the norm. My mother in law was drafted into munitions work and she had to walk almost 5 miles to and from work and was then on her feet all day as a 'progress chaser' in a machine shop. I would guess that the energy consumed in the average female war-time activity (Land Army, Timber Corps, Munitions etc) would be double that of an 'office job'.

In short - high energy output, low calorie input. Many people were undernourished, irrespective of the nutritional quality of the food they ate. My mother in law (and others to whom I have spoken) describe their colleagues fainting in the workplace- presumably through lack of energy - and these women were receiving a 'square meal' in the middle of the day. In one case M-i-L described a woman machinist fainting and falling face down onto her rotating centre lathe - one of the worst deaths I can imagine.

I think attempts to replicate the ration diet are interesting, but to be in any way representative, exercise must be increased to war-time levels and the calorie count would have to be reduced far below todays levels. Yes, one will lose weight. I don't see how it can be avoided.

 

[MirandaFern]

I think attempts to replicate the ration diet are interesting, but to be in any way representative, exercise must be increased to war-time levels and the calorie count would have to be reduced far below todays levels. Yes, one will lose weight. I don't see how it can be avoided.

I am in no way trying to romanticize the experiences of the people during that era. People of that generation were appear to be made from much stronger stuff than my own generation. I hold them in very high esteem. That they were able to do so much with so little amazes me.

I do not harbor any illusion that my experiment is in any way comparable to the experience Brits of the Era. To truly capture the essence of that, one would also have to throw sleep deprivation in the mix as well as the intensive labor of working 12 to 16 hour shifts in a factory, then coming home and having to feed one's family.

The only thing that makes this endeavor remotely similar is that I'm limiting my weekly intake of items that would be rationed, Eggs, Sugar, Butter, etc, and I'm abstaining from most processed foods that would have been imported and limiting my purchase of items that would have been available.

I am growing as much of my own food as possible in the limited space between apartment buildings. Even that isn't accurate, because Houston has a much longer growing season than the UK.

 

[H.Johnson]

Apologies, I am not offering a criticism of what you are doing. You are clearly knowledgable, well-informed and sympathetic towards the people who were on the 'home front' in WW2.

I used to teach research methods at University and I am always doing little experiments to test or just to try out things that people used or did in past times (e.g. vintage mountaineering equipment, navigating in jungle conditions etc.) so I guess that you and I are thinking on similar lines.

I'd be the first to accept that such 'quasi-experiments' (the correct technical term for what we are doing) have limitations in terms of replicating the actual conditions. That doesn't mean they aren't worth doing or that the results aren't interesting. Finding out about things is often about putting pieces of partial information together to produce a larger picture.

I just wanted to provide extra information to the forum, taken from personal communication with people who 'were there'. There have been a few articles in the UK popular press suggesting that people (especially children) were healthier in WW2 than they are today. This is in danger of being accepted as 'fact', but is based, it seems to me, on the supposition that to be thin and eat a meagre diet is to be healthy, to be fat and have a fuller diet is to be unhealthy.

I'd like to see that challenged with some good research. In this context, I look forward to hearing of your experiences.

 

[MirandaFern]

Apologies, I am not offering a criticism of what you are doing. You are clearly knowledgable, well-informed and sympathetic towards the people who were on the 'home front' in WW2.

No offense taken. I just don't want to be viewed as a presumptious Yank with a Marguerite Patten cookbook.

I went to school for anthropology and history, and find myself in a Legal Library. I'm happy to have my job, and I like it. However, I needed an intellectual outlet, so I threw myself into this .

 

[jeep44]

On sort of a related note, my Dad developed a taste for Orange Marmalade while stationed in England during WW2, and for years 'Dundee' orange marmalade was always to be found at our house. I can remember when the jars came with a paper lid, and even now, there are still decades-old jars in their house holding pencils. He could not find this stuff anywhere, and assumed it went out of business. I found it in a store near me, and took him a couple of jars this weekend. He remarked about how in England, there would be large open jars of marmalade on the tables,and in the summer, they would be swarming with bees. At any rate,bees or not,he was glad to get his favorite marmalade again.

 

[H.Johnson]

Your knowledge and interest shows, and it is respected here.

As a part of your experiment, you may wish to try the principle of 'making the most of...' It's a variety of 'make to and mend' but applied to food. The idea is that you start with an food item in one form, use from it what you can and then (not throwing it away) you process it for eating in another form. So, a duck/chicken/pheasant breast and legs would be offered first as cutlets, then the gristly/offal bitw would be baked into a pie and finally the bones and what was left would be made into soup. For a time a big part of the patriotic prestige of a housewife (homemaker) would be how many times she could use a food item. Everything ended in soup!

Even bread was often used in three different forms - first as sandwiches, with the crust removed, then the crust would make bread and butter pudding (often made with margarine!) and then a fairly disgusting porridge-like substance called 'pobs' would be made by boiling stale bread in milk or milk and water.

Keep up the good work!

No offense taken. I just don't want to be viewed as a presumptious Yank with a Marguerite Patten cookbook.

I went to school for anthropology and history, and find myself in a Legal Library. I'm happy to have my job, and I like it. However, I needed an intellectual outlet, so I threw myself into this .

 

[Land-O-LakesGal]

Your knowledge and interest shows, and it is respected here.

As a part of your experiment, you may wish to try the principle of 'making the most of...' It's a variety of 'make to and mend' but applied to food. The idea is that you start with an food item in one form, use from it what you can and then (not throwing it away) you process it for eating in another form. So, a duck/chicken/pheasant breast and legs would be offered first as cutlets, then the gristly/offal bitw would be baked into a pie and finally the bones and what was left would be made into soup. For a time a big part of the patriotic prestige of a housewife (homemaker) would be how many times she could use a food item. Everything ended in soup!

Even bread was often used in three different forms - first as sandwiches, with the crust removed, then the crust would make bread and butter pudding (often made with margarine!) and then a fairly disgusting porridge-like substance called 'pobs' would be made by boiling stale bread in milk or milk and water.

Keep up the good work!

YOu know I think its funny I often do some things like this not with the bread as I don't really eat that much bread and my family finished off most of what we have although I should try to do something with those encrust they never eat I always feel guilty tossing them. But with the meat I will serve it again then make a soup of it this weekend was chicken dumpling soup made with a frozen carcass of a roasted chicken from last month (it was so hot for a while I couldn't get anyone to eat soup before this). I think the modern generation thinks this odd to be thrifty with your food. I also am to only one in the neighborhood that hangs my laundry out instead of using a dryer. I often feel that other may think I am brining down the neighborhood.

HJohnson I had to chuckle at your signature as I see how you live up to it

 

[H.Johnson]

L-o-l G,

You're clearly doing a great job of being thrifty. My mother's generation would be proud of you. Could it catch on among the celebrity set, do you think? Will thrift become the fashion 'flavour of the month'?

My signature is from a 'compliment' paid to me by another lounger. 'Just trying to get the facts, ma'am' as a 1950s comedian (now who was he?) used to say in a sketch about a detective.

 

[MirandaFern]

Everything ended in soup!

Soup has become my new best friend.
Slightly amusing result of the whole endeavor.

I was boiling turnips last night, for tonight's dinner, when my mother called. She asked what I was doing, and I replied "making dinner for tomorrow." Naturally she asked "what are you making?"
"Mashed turnip casserole", I replied. [pregnant pause on her end of the line]...
"Honey, do you need me to send you money for food?"

Apparently turnips=desperation=poverty ridden daughter, to my mother.

 

[H.Johnson]

I'm proud of you! You're really getting the hang of this!

Your mothers reaction proves it...

 

[MirandaFern]

I'm proud of you! You're really getting the hang of this!

Your mothers reaction proves it...

She's just happy she has two "normal" daughters to offset me .

 

[H.Johnson]

This thread has me reliving my childhood. This week I have made breakfast using bread like my Mother used to during rationing. Here we go:

'Pobs' - a porridge subsitute using stale bread.
You will need:
- A stale loaf (white or brown);
- A meat mincer;
- A large baking bowl;
- A porringer or large brass saucepan;
- A spoon, wooden, stirring for the use of;
- A pint (.5 litre) of milk (preferably not too sour);
- A pugil of salt.

Break the stale loaf into pieces, feed them into the mincer*, turning the handle (small children are useful for this). Place the crumbs in the baking bowl, add the milk (as much as you have) and water and stir until the consistency seems about right.

Transfer from bowl to saucepan or porringer. Bring up heat (did I mention a stove?). Add salt and keep stirring while simmering until an even consistency is achieved. Serve into eating bowls, leave to cool and stiffen.

Ahhhh - delicious! Not really, but it did at least provide your kids with a breakfast...

* Everybody has a cast-iron manual meat mincer, right?