Bowler hats anyone?

[immortaldiamond]

Have you looked at the Christys ones at Hornets Hats?

Yes, Billy - these are better than Locks.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I'm looking forward, Charlie, to seeing how you get on. You might be disappointed though with the Locks box. I have one and it's extremely flimsy.

Really?

I do have a Christys' hat box but I want a Lock's as it has a carrying cord for when I need to travel (and I think they are larger so I can store more than one hat in them). But now I am tempted by the Patey ones... oh, so much to spend, so little money in the kitty!

Has anyone got a Bates one? How strong is it?

Oh, I also got the Patey drawstring hat bag. It is well made and waterproof too. I can use it to carry my boater or bowler without it being in a bulky hat box.

It is made of a heavy nylon lined with rayon (I think). Their name is machine embroidered.

 

[immortaldiamond]

Really?

I do have a Christys' hat box but I want a Lock's as it has a carrying cord for when I need to travel (and I think they are larger so I can store more than one hat in them). But now I am tempted by the Patey ones... oh, so much to spend, so little money in the kitty!

Has anyone got a Bates one? How strong is it?

Oh, I also got the Patey drawstring hat bag. It is well made and waterproof too. I can use it to carry my boater or bowler without it being in a bulky hat box.

It is made of a heavy nylon lined with rayon (I think). Their name is machine embroidered.

This is rather ugly, but looks practical enough
http://www.hatboxmenswear.com/system/scripts/results_big.cgi?product=13003&category=
Doesn't go with your blazer and boater though

 

[immortaldiamond]

This is rather ugly, but looks practical enough
http://www.hatboxmenswear.com/system/scripts/results_big.cgi?product=13003&category=
Doesn't go with your blazer and boater though

Or this - even less removed from your kitty
http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/product/travel-hat-box.html

 

[immortaldiamond]

Or this - even less removed from your kitty
http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/product/travel-hat-box.html

Finally - http://www.thisnext.com/item/6DADA3F9/3646FF08/TUMI-Motcomb-Hat-Box

 

[Charlie Huang]

The first one looks like someone tried to cook a meal in a plastic tub on a gas hob...

 

[Brad Bowers]

Pre-1929 Dobbs Derby

I picked up this Dobbs Derby up on eBay, and FedEx just dropped it off. I wasn't sure it was my size, and it's not, but that's not why I got it. I bought it because I could date to between 1920 and 1928, which shows me an good example of Dobbs Derbies from that decade. Here are a few details for those that want to use them for referencing and dating:

The pleated liner and tip, beautiful gold color. The address on the tip tipped me off to the date, as they moved from 620 Fifth Avenue in 1928. the 324 address opened sometime after 1920, but I haven't pinned it down yet.

It does has a felt cushion in the front:

It has the stitchless seam on the sweatband, common to the '20s to about the mid-'30s.

The stamped "Dobbs" at an angle lasted until sometime in the '30s, from what I can gather. Sometimes seen stamped in gold.

Here are the labels and tags. Nice Dobbs label. Interestingly enough, the liner does not appear to have ever been stitched in. There are remnants of glue where the tip (the heaviest part of the liner) was glued to the top of the crown, but no stitch holes anywhere in the liner. Note the overturned edge on the sweatband.

Finally, the last interesting thing to note in the construction is this cloth-wrapped wire that goes all the way around the inside of the brim edge, giving support to the edge. No idea if this is a Dobbs appurtenance or aftermarket. My C&K Derby does not have it, but the brim is also stiffer on that one.

Here it is on my mug - size 7 1/8 is way too small for me.

Still need to score an early Cavanagh Derby, and I then will have examples from the first few decades of the 20th Century (My C&K is from 1896 to 1909). The Cavanagh had better be in my size.lol

Brad

 

[Lefty]

Great info on the address, but I think they may have been stamping Dobbs on an angle into the 40s. I'm basing that on the Gay Blade with the unique liner. Always open to being wrong, I think this is a 40s hat.

 

[Brad Bowers]

That stamp might have made it into the '40s.

However, I still think that's a '30s hat. The sweatband is unreeded, for one thing.

Unfortunately, Dobbs didn't trademark the name, so we have no idea if the name goes back before '47.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

Here are the labels and tags. Nice Dobbs label. Interestingly enough, the liner does not appear to have ever been stitched in. There are remnants of glue where the tip (the heaviest part of the liner) was glued to the top of the crown, but no stitch holes anywhere in the liner. Note the overturned edge on the sweatband.

Brad

I have a vintage Habig bowler (posted above) and it also doesn't have any stitch holes in the liner. I couldn't find any sign of glue either. Were bowler liners commonly secured by glue? Thanks!

 

[Brad Bowers]

I have a vintage Habig bowler (posted above) and it also doesn't have any stitch holes in the liner. I couldn't find any sign of glue either. Were bowler liners commonly secured by glue? Thanks!

Not that I know of, but it wouldn't surprise me, as it seems like it would be hard on needles and fingers to stitch one to such stiff felt. Perhaps the liners were just placed inside. Many came without liners, too, just a tip sticker to let you know the brand.

I was quite surprised to see this glue. We usually look on that as a sign of a cheap modern hat!

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

Not that I know of, but it wouldn't surprise me, as it seems like it would be hard on needles and fingers to stitch one to such stiff felt. Perhaps the liners were just placed inside. Many came without liners, too, just a tip sticker to let you know the brand.

I was quite surprised to see this glue. We usually look on that as a sign of a cheap modern hat!

Brad

Makes sense. The first Habig bowler I posted in this thread (appears to be of similar vintage as your Dobbs) didn't have a liner. There is no sign of liner stitching. Still I assumed the liner was lost so I had Optimo put in a new one which is spot glued.

 

[jamespowers]

Great info on the address, but I think they may have been stamping Dobbs on an angle into the 40s. I'm basing that on the Gay Blade with the unique liner. Always open to being wrong, I think this is a 40s hat.

Good gravy! I never thought I would actually ever see one of these.
Do you have one of these too?:

Dobbs had a lot of these in the series I guess. [huh]

 

[Lefty]

The photo isn't of my hat, I'm sorry to say. It was a recent ebay auction for a hat that was too small for me. I don't recall the size, but it's in the ebay thread.

As far as I know, there were 3 Gay hats: Cavalier, Blade, and Prince. The Blade is the only one I like, and I think JtL has the only one shown on the Lounge.

 

[Lefty]

I think that's the first example of the Cavanagh Way that I've seen - if that's what it is.

It does has a felt cushion in the front:

Note the overturned edge on the sweatband.

 

[jamespowers]

I think that's the first example of the Cavanagh Way that I've seen - if that's what it is.

I think we defintitley have a 1934 date for Brad then, Eh?

 

[Brad Bowers]

I don't think my hat has "The Cavanagh Way." The ad talks about a cushioning ring, but I only have a short strip of felt.

Thanks for posting that, Lefty. That's the first I've heard of "The Cavanagh Way." I believe Dreispitz's Derby has that, though.

JP, you mean 1934 for my hat? Nope, it's 1928 or earlier. I actually think the window is fairly narrow, between 1924 and 1928, as I have a C&K publication from 1924 that talks about the Dobbs & Co. shops, and 324 is not listed. 620 is gone by October 1928, so that narrows it quite a bit.

Brad

 

[Lefty]

Here are a couple more on the Cavanagh Way for you. Apparently, it was a 1934 feature, as all 3 ads come from that year.

 

[Dreispitz]

I don't think my hat has "The Cavanagh Way." The ad talks about a cushioning ring, but I only have a short strip of felt.

Thanks for posting that, Lefty. That's the first I've heard of "The Cavanagh Way." I believe Dreispitz's Derby has that, though.

JP, you mean 1934 for my hat? Nope, it's 1928 or earlier. I actually think the window is fairly narrow, between 1924 and 1928, as I have a C&K publication from 1924 that talks about the Dobbs & Co. shops, and 324 is not listed. 620 is gone by October 1928, so that narrows it quite a bit.

Brad

Great reference, Lefty! Cheers!

Brad,

so, the cushioned swetband now has a name. Yes, the felt underneath the swetband of my bowler goes all around the hat.

Interesting, that they advertised it as a sweat barrier, though. Will sweat really diffuse through the hard shell of a bowler? The cushioning effect is a definite add-on.

However, the company obviously did not stick to "The Cavanagh Way" for a long time. My fifties fedora has got no felt inlay. Any further references for that?

Mind you, I have a Christie´s bowler from 1959. Also stitchless seam, as my early Cavanagh. Oh yes, that hat! Hope, it is a little bit of compfort for you that it is a 7 1/2 and therefore, maybe, not quiet you 7 3/8 LO

 

[Brad Bowers]

In all my research these past few years, this is the first time I've heard the term "The Cavanagh Way." I've not seen that treatment on any of the '40s and '50s hats, so it must not have lasted too long.

However, I have run across it before - in my collection of Cavanagh hat patents. Just took me until this morning to remember. Cavanagh also patented a similar sweatband in 1934 and again in 1935. The guy was innovative, what can I say? But from this diagram, you can see the extreme flange on the sweatband.

A couple of things probably led to the dropping of this feature:

First, soft hats wouldn't necessarily need the cushioning that a Derby would. The cushioning felt idea is probably borrowed from Derbies, like Dreisptiz's.

Second, this is just before the use of taped and reeded sweatbands starts, which probably ended this experiment.

Thanks to Lefty, I have a name to apply to this!

Brad