Borsalino Quality

[Jeremiah]

Here.
This is the one on the left.
One on right is pretty much similar except it's XX

 

[Daniele Tanto]

I possess many Borsalino, nearly all sold on the Italian market, starting from the 40s until the 90s.
The variety and felt quality often it depends on factors that are difficult to understand and explain for us buyers.
It is undeniable that the Borsalino up to the mid 80 (dismission of the historical factory) has produced hats with commendable quality felts, some even in the 90s, then it is diffcult to say.
There are newer hats of great quality and the same model in inferior quality.
I think that for the size of the market, the US is the best served as a quality product that comes to retailing.
In the visit (January 2016) to Borsalino with Steve we have seen and touched good quality products and some excellent.
I believe that the quality depends on the amount of sold hats and the purchasing power of that market. Certainly the US market is best served, taking into account the different tastes, from the European one.
I love the "shaved" or plain felt moderately and much more special finishes where Borsalino is (was) a master except for the velours where the German-Austrian producers are (were) unbeatable.

 

[mayserwegener]

Here.
This is the one on the left.
One on right is pretty much similar except it's XX

When I get home I will check one of the 1950s catalogs.

 

[Jeremiah]

When I get home I will check one of the 1950s catalogs.

Thanks

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks

Please post the same for the one on the right. Also paper labels if possible.

 

[hatsRme]

Peluche, or velour?

 

[Jeremiah]

Please post the same for the one on the right. Also paper labels if possible.

Ok

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Pelouche, pelouche, pelouche!
I have some very similar or the same and they are my favorites
Although among the French there are fantastic examples of plush

 

[Jeremiah]

One on right.
Paper is from one on left. No paper on right one.

 

[mayserwegener]

Peluche, or velour?
View attachment 58393 View attachment 58394 View attachment 58395 View attachment 58396

It looks like Velour to me. Velour is either wet hot wet brushed and clipped or dry scratched and clipped. As I mentioned the Velour varies. I am not sure what you mean by Peluche.

Antelope / Suede finishes are achieved by special pouncing processes. These methods also came from Europe.

 

[alanfgag]

Nice Borsalinos. The Marque Grand Luxe by Borsalino was a 1950s-60s closely shaved velour finish hat sold in several qualities (up to XXXXXX) - must have been a popular import as it shows up quite frequently in the vintage market with U.S. markings.

This Colombo you posted is another example of a similar velour finish. The examples I have seen of this model were Italian market hats - this one is an XX also.

These are beautiful felts but quite a different animal to the luxurious German/Austrian velours

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks Alan!

 

[EstherWeis]

It looks like Velour to me. Velour is either wet hot wet brushed and clipped or dry scratched and clipped. As I mentioned the Velour varies. I am not sure what you mean by Peluche.

Antelope / Suede finishes are achieved by special pouncing processes. These methods also came from Europe.

I's have to agree with you here. Looks like velour to me too.

Peluche? But I think I do know what you mean. ( I know them as teddy finishes)

 

[mayserwegener]

Pelouche, pelouche, pelouche!
I have some very similar or the same and they are my favorites
Although among the French there are fantastic examples of plush

What do you mean by this? Soleil?

 

[hatsRme]

It looks like Velour to me. Velour is either wet hot wet brushed and clipped or dry scratched and clipped. As I mentioned the Velour varies. I am not sure what you mean by Peluche.

To be perfectly honest, Steve, I wasn't sure which term was technically correct, thus the question mark. I should have asked Googoo!

 

[mayserwegener]

There is Velour, Flamand and Soleil (see below). I think it can be difficult at times to distinguish between Velour and Soleil.

"(The unclipped (unshorn) velour hair is called “Flamand”, in this case the hair is long, undulated, soft and glossy as it reflects a lot of light. When the tips are clipped off and the hair is ironed all around or from top to bottom one talks about “Soleil”. Most difficult is the production of upright “open” velour because in this case a particular tightness (or density?) and sturdiness of the hair is necessary and it is significantly harder to produce the same amount of gloss as where an entire, smooth surface displays.)"

The above quote comes from this important / rare article.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...r-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/#entry1231

 

[mayserwegener]

I's have to agree with you here. Looks like velour to me too.

Peluche? But I think I do know what you mean. ( I know them as teddy finishes)

I use the terms Velour, Soleil and Flamand. As I mentioned above I think it's difficult to distinguish between them at times. Also vary by region / methods/ time period. The article I posted above was at the transition point from manual hot wet brushed (Real) Velour. I am not aware of any one making mechanical hot wet brushed Velour. The manual methods are lost as far as I now.

 

[TheDane]

What do you mean by this? Soleil?

Steve, I believe "Pelouche" means something in the neighborhood of "fluffy", "soft", "plush" in Latin-based languages - French and Italian. I'm not completely sure, though

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve, I believe "Pelouche" means something in the neighborhood of "fluffy", "soft", "plush" in Latin-based languages - French and Italian. I'm not completely sure, though

I have seen Plush used too. Also Melusine. For example FEPSA uses this term but I don't believe it's historicaly correct.

I am pretty sure the article I posted above is on point regarding industry terms for soft felt hats (from when it really mattered).

 

[alanfgag]

Charlie, the long-hair, short brimmed Borsalino "Diamante" was to my recollection a different finish than the two hats I posted above - perhaps also a velour, but less soft, less voluptuous:

As I try to recollect the hats I once owned but have passed along, I remember a beautiful black Borsalino in a soft, lustrous velour very close to the quality of the Anton Peschel I posted above. It was a tiny size that I gave to my Dad. I can't seem to find a photo of it.