Boater assistance

[shindeco]

laquering a boater?

Just got a Dorfman boater cheap -- it hasn't been laquered (which is, I assume, why it's cheaper!) but I'm hoping I can laquer it myself. Has anyone done this? Any hints or suggestions??

 

[John in Covina]

Sounds like an interesting proposition, please take pictures and describe what you wind up doing.

 

[carouselvic]

I only own one boater, so I am very ignorant, are they even suppose to be lacquered? Are milans ever lacquered?

 

[Brad Bowers]

I don't know whether lacquer was ever used in the modern day, but here's how the Crofut & Knapp factory stiffened their sennit straw boaters in the old days:

They took "fine French gelatine," soaked it in cold water overnight to saturate it, then liquefied it in a double-boiler. Next, they bleached the gelatin with oxalate of potash, oxalic acid and salts of tarter, and then diluted it to the proper consistency, depending on the stiffness wanted, with warm water. The hats were then hand-dipped into the mixture and allowed to dry naturally, in a humidity-controlled environment. This was before the sweatbands, liner tips, and ribbons were installed.

So, no lacquer, but using gelatin might be unfeasible in your case.

Whatever you end up doing, it would be best to remove the sweatband, any liner or tip, and the ribbon before you apply the lacquer. Probably more trouble than it's worth.

Brad

 

[carouselvic]

My Boater

The golden color of this hat comes from its age. It has only one piece of its straw points broken. A very fine old hat.

 

[shindeco]

It worked!! What information I could find seemed to suggest that gelatine was the standard stiffener in the 19th century but by the early 20th century it seems to have switched over to shellac (usually mixed with other stuff for waterproofing). I went with clear shellac. I also decided to go with spray on shellac as that tends to pebble a bit and leaves a finish that's not quite as shiny.

I removed the riband and protected the sweat band with masking tape and kitchen wrap. The shellac can recommended waiting an hour between coats so I sprayed the inside and lower brim; let it dry for 30 minutes (by which time it was sufficiently dry to hold carefully) and then sprayed the outside and top of the brim. I kept spraying every half hour until I had 5 coats and let it dry overnight. Result: hat with good stiffness (doesn't bend when you lift up the hat by the brim); not shiny -- in fact, a good boater at a low price. I have to say that it's not as stiff as the vintage one of my dad's; I think if I'd used a paint on shellac it might have soaked into the straw more (apparently the manufacturers dip them and then spin them!) but it's derfinitely a very wearable hat.

I took a leaf from Charlie Huang's book and made exchangeable ribands. I have one black and one in my school colours (blue and gold)

 

[John in Covina]

Super job there Shindeco!

 

[Cordite Blues]

Hi: I am a new member of TFL and this my first post. I've enjoyed reading many of the historical posts, and have learned a lot.
I am considering the purchase of a straw boater for the summer and need advice on brands and sources. I have a relatively large-sized head (7 3/4) and have found a number of places that offer larger-than-XL sizes, which I find unusual compared to a lot of local retail shops.
Any recommendations/suggestions/warnings/ruminations would be appreciated. I'm torn between the wider-vs.-narrower brim ("skimmer"?).

Thanks.

CB

 

[carldelo]

Whatever you order, make sure the vendor has a generous return policy. Boaters are notoriously inflexible - if it doesn't fit your noggin shape, even if it's the right size, a boater will not be amenable to reshaping. Village Hat Shop has them in your size and a great no-extra-shipping cost exchange policy. Bencraft (a lounge sponsor) has what looks like the same hat for a lower price, and is committed to customer satisfaction - not sure what their exchange policy is, however (I just go to the store). Miller Hats has a bigger selection that anyone, but returns are accepted for store credit only - this has bitten many loungers on the backside... good luck.

PS I should note that the Miller selection looks in actuality to be a wide selection of hat bands - the hats all look to be the same model.

PPS Now where are my manners? per Nick's post below, welcome to the lounge...

 

[Nick D]

Welcome to the Lounge, Cordite Blues.

There's a thread on boaters here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=28151&highlight=faction

I second the need for a return policy. I normally wear a 7 1/8, but my Olney boater is a 6 7/8. This is due to the fairly low crown on the Olney boater, so it sits rather high on my head and needs a smaller size. Vintage boaters usually had higher crowns, so could sit lower.

 

[Cordite Blues]

thanks

Thanks for the sites and the advice. I'm still making up my mind between a 2" or 3" brim. The stingier ones seem to more available.

Thanks again, gentlemen.

CB

 

[Mr E Train]

I also recently acquired a jones for a straw boater, and I'm also a 7 3/4. I just ordered an Olney from http://tailsandtheunexpected.co.uk. Vintage wasn't really an option. I shopped around and couldn't find anything better for the price in that size, and many of the ones that were twice as expensive were made by Scala, which basically means they were made by Dorfman Pacific, and they looked like they weren't made of sennit straw, but the typical toyo rice paper straw or something similar. No amber tint or anything, just a bleached straw color. The Olney doesn't match the vintage straw boaters I've seen, but it has that nice amber tint and seems to capture the vibe of the vintage ones better than many of the more expensive new ones you find online.

I went ahead and ordered my regular size since I'm a long oval and I figured that with a hat that can't be stretched I'd be better off erring on the side of too large rather than too small and use shims if I have to.

 

[Cordite Blues]

interested in your report

I went ahead and ordered my regular size since I'm a long oval and I figured that with a hat that can't be stretched I'd be better off erring on the side of too large rather than too small and use shims if I have to.

I'll be interested in your experience when you receive your Olney. I have a similar issue tho in a different direction: I'm something of a wide oval. In order to get a boater that will fit abeam, I'll need a larger one and shim front and rear.

I'm told that Baron Hats can make me custom boater in any oval shape needed. It seems like a nice hat and may be my best (tho pricey) choice. I think I was born 50 years too late....

http://www.baronhats.com/biograph.htm

Doug.
CB.

 

[Mr E Train]

I'll be interested in your experience when you receive your Olney. I have a similar issue tho in a different direction: I'm something of a wide oval. In order to get a boater that will fit abeam, I'll need a larger one and shim front and rear.

I'm told that Baron Hats can make me custom boater in any oval shape needed. It seems like a nice hat and may be my best (tho pricey) choice. I think I was born 50 years too late....

http://www.baronhats.com/biograph.htm

Doug.
CB.

The Baron looks nice, but I don't know if it's worth the price unless you want a boater with a taller crown than the usual 3 1/2 or 4 inches. Baron's looks a bit taller than the one in the Public Enemies clip they show, and the weave doesn't look like the ones on vintage straw boaters to me, expertly done though it is.

Tails & the Unexpected has a satisfaction guaranteed return policy (although you do have to pay to ship it back), so at that price it might be worth it to take a chance. They are responsive to emails and seem helpful from what I've seen, so why not send them a message and ask about the sizing of the hats? They might be able to help you. Or, when I get mine I can take measurements, then you can take that information and get with one of the guys around here who really know about hat sizing and determine how well it will fit your head based on your head measurements, or compare my measurements to the measurements of a hat that fits you well.

EDIT: I forgot to mention something, CB, something you may already realize. British sizes are a little different than US, so their 7 5/8 is equivalent to our 7 3/4. If you go with an Olney make sure to order by the metric size, 62cm, if you want the exact US size 7 3/4.

 

[Cody Pendant]

Arn't you forgetting something?

Err, Don't you needa boat to wear a 'boater? Why else would you need one? If you don't already have one (the boat), it could run the expense up quite a bit to get the full effect. Just my .2 cents worth.

 

[Mr E Train]

Err, Don't you needa boat to wear a 'boater? Why else would you need one? If you don't already have one (the boat), it could run the expense up quite a bit to get the full effect. Just my .2 cents worth.

I'll hold to that rule when everybody that wears a cowboy hat is an actual cowboy and everybody who wears a baseball cap is a baseball player.

 

[Mikey P]

That was a very interesting little blurb on the website about Boaters and being associated with some private schools, even today. I had no idea.

Mikey

 

[boushi_mania]

Err, Don't you needa boat to wear a 'boater? Why else would you need one? If you don't already have one (the boat), it could run the expense up quite a bit to get the full effect. Just my .2 cents worth.

Yes, because all those barbershop singers also moonlight as Venetian gondoliers...

 

[carldelo]

I'll hold to that rule when everybody that wears a cowboy hat is an actual cowboy and everybody who wears a baseball cap is a baseball player.

Excellent - I will definitely save that one for future use.... :eusa_clap

 

[skyvue]

There must have been an awful lot of boat owners in the first half of the twentieth century. The lakes and oceans must surely have been overcrowded.