black style

[MrBern]

From the paper of record

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/fashion/31black.html

 

[Phil]

I've seen this fashion before on, oh yeah! Wanna be white kids. I know it's somewhat racist to say that blacks should dress like blacks and whites whould dress like whites, but it's true. Myself, I dress in a t-shit and jeans. I see same kids walking down the halls dressed in Enyce and FUBU, acting "gangsta" and dropping "N" bombs. I don't get it, my town is a little white bubble. It's rich, white, and definitely not the ghetto. I certainly don't get why some of the kids call each other the "N" word. Yeah, the word was created by white people, but it's also a very negative word. If I found my kids saying such a word so loosely, I'd beat them, plain and simple. I just don't get some trends sometimes.

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

Luckily it seems that whole scene is dying out, at least around here, gangsta is being played on the radio less and less. Why didn't mainstream America pick up back in the '90s on the _artistic_ rap music being put out by the likes of De La Soul instead of gangsta?

Interesting article, here's a link that doesn't require registration to view it
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/f...57bfc9c009945a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


Swing High,
- C H

 

[Phil]

I rember some of that rap back when it was first starting out, I actually have some on my computer. That was respectable rap, it called for change, it called for reform, and it called for a shift of moral values towards good. I prefer that over hearing about how much money a rapper spent on a weekend somewhere and how he's "bustin' 40's down with a ho".

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

I rember some of that rap back when it was first starting out, I actually have some on my computer. That was respectable rap, it called for change, it called for reform, and it called for a shift of moral values towards good. I prefer that over hearing about how much money a rapper spent on a weekend somewhere and how he's "bustin' 40's down with a ho".

Amen Phil. That whole scene turned me off to rap which I grew up with (starting with the Sugar Hill Gang), but luckily I turned to the other style of music my granddad had piqued my interest in as a kid, 30s-40s swing. Which spread to golden era movies, and now an interest in the whole lifestyle, which brings us all here.

Swing High,
- C H

 

[Feraud]

I tend to wonder how black the dress is as opposed to simply based on a genre of music. If I am correct, the style we are referring to grew out of the hip-hop scene. This music came from the African American experience but such styles do not express the feeling of an entire culture. I base this observation on humble and limited experiences.

I think the NYTimes article does a disservice by calling it "black style". Since when do we (or should we?) pigeonhole groups based on a musical genre? These expensive and trendy pieces probably do not represent what any people as a whole would consider "style".

From what I see of the designer's collection he seems to be focusing on a very narrow (and highly commercial) aspect of "black style". Rocawear, Sean John, Phat Farm, etc. make an awesome living promoting an aspect of a culture but I do not look at their clothes as defining a "movement", culture, or "keeping it real". It is simply good business.

I cannot help think of Betsey Johnson. Would the Times do an article on her using "punk fashion" as inspiration and calling it "white culture"? I think not. The Times is about 20 years behind the times on this one.

 

[Rosie]

I've seen this fashion before on, oh yeah! Wanna be white kids. I know it's somewhat racist to say that blacks should dress like blacks and whites whould dress like whites, but it's true. Myself, I dress in a t-shit and jeans. I see same kids walking down the halls dressed in Enyce and FUBU, acting "gangsta" and dropping "N" bombs. I don't get it, my town is a little white bubble. It's rich, white, and definitely not the ghetto. I certainly don't get why some of the kids call each other the "N" word. Yeah, the word was created by white people, but it's also a very negative word. If I found my kids saying such a word so loosely, I'd beat them, plain and simple. I just don't get some trends sometimes.

Um, what do you mean Blacks should dress as Blacks and Whites should dress as Whites? What exactly is Black dress or White dress?

People do not choose their style of dress based on their race, rather on what it is they want to wear. By your criteria, I, a black girl, straight from the ghetto and currently living in an "up and coming neighborhood" as penned by the New York Times should be dressed in a doo rag and baggy jeans. Heavens forbid I should not have gold teeth or a velour track suit.

What's next? Whites should live in white neighborhoods and blacks in black neighborhood? Whites should talk like whites and blacks like blacks?

Brother, give me a break.

 

[Rosie]

I tend to wonder how black the dress is as opposed to simply based on a genre of music. If I am correct, the style we are referring to grew out of the hip-hop scene. This music came from the African American experience but such styles do not express the feeling of an entire culture. I base this observation on humble and limited experiences.

I think the NYTimes article does a disservice by calling it "black style". Since when do we (or should we?) pigeonhole groups based on a musical genre? These expensive and trendy pieces probably do not represent what any people as a whole would consider "style".

From what I see of the designer's collection he seems to be focusing on a very narrow (and highly commercial) aspect of "black style". Rocawear, Sean John, Phat Farm, etc. make an awesome living promoting an aspect of a culture but I do not look at their clothes as defining a "movement", culture, or "keeping it real". It is simply good business.

I cannot help think of Betsey Johnson. Would the Times do an article on her using "punk fashion" as inspiration and calling it "white culture"? I think not. The Times is about 20 years behind the times on this one.

:eusa_clap Thank you Feraud.

 

[Lady Day]

Okay, Im weirded out by this thread.

One, 'black dress' as listed in this article is more a hodgepodge of the Hip-Hop scene, which in point is an alamgum of many different races and cultures as of the last 10 years.

Two, most of the top designers of said, 'black dress' are not Aftican American. Hilfiger was LUCKY that the at the time black underclass picked up his brand and revived it. It was kina like what Run DMC did for Arrowsmith with 'Walk This Way'. The popular designer of Baby Phat, last time I looked, is not a black woman. These designers, are catering to a catogory called 'urban fashion'. Kind of a mash of streetwalker and Thunderdome apocalyptic rag.

This caught on in the urban scens, much like flipflops and bord shorts caught on is suburbia, because that is what everyone was wearing! It was a status symbol to wear Tommy in BIG letters on your chest, and those cursed Starter Jackets that looked like marshmellows ('member those?).

Some of the only real ties left to this new hip-hop (I hate that term) that involve the black culture/exprience are the pimp, blacksploitation, and the church. Mtv was the weapon that turned this 'cultural' thing into a full fledge marketing tool, casting faux culture onto people who didnt know better.

Sooooooooo lets just call it what it is, a focus group. Cause if the black kids are doing it, cause they are, then people are sure the white kids will to, why? Because the black kids are right?

LD

 

[Lady Day]

Luckily it seems that whole scene is dying out, at least around here, gangsta is being played on the radio less and less. Why didn't mainstream America pick up back in the '90s on the _artistic_ rap music being put out by the likes of De La Soul instead of gangsta?

Interesting article, here's a link that doesn't require registration to view it
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/f...57bfc9c009945a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


Swing High,
- C H

Well with the electronic turn Outcast has made in the last few years, it seems they are doing a Trojan horse maneuver into differnet generas. Yay Outcast. And if Idlewild is a sucess, then we may see a lot more young folks in tailored garb and suspenders. Oh be still my heart!

I miss De La too (altho they did do a stint on the Gorillaz new album). And Public Enemy. Man I miss dem'.


LD

 

[Lady Day]

Im sorry, take away the fur collar and that is a church suit. Ive seen many a brother sportin a nice suit like that.

IE Mr Steve Harvey.


LD

 

[BellyTank]

Hmmm...

Myself, I dress in a t-shit and jeans....

...and I'm still wondering what the above-quoted garment looks like-
-is it so bad..?

B
T

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

I've seen this fashion before on, oh yeah! Wanna be white kids. I know it's somewhat racist to say that blacks should dress like blacks and whites whould dress like whites, but it's true. Myself, I dress in a t-shit and jeans. I see same kids walking down the halls dressed in Enyce and FUBU, acting "gangsta" and dropping "N" bombs. I don't get it, my town is a little white bubble. It's rich, white, and definitely not the ghetto. I certainly don't get why some of the kids call each other the "N" word...

Um, what do you mean Blacks should dress as Blacks and Whites should dress as Whites? What exactly is Black dress or White dress?
...
What's next? Whites should live in white neighborhoods and blacks in black neighborhood? Whites should talk like whites and blacks like blacks?

Brother, give me a break.

Oh boy, I was hoping maybe no one else would notice that first part of Phil's post...

fftopic:

Phil, Rosie,

I think that was perhaps just a poorly-thought-out way of expressing frustration over the hideous aping by mainstream middle-class suburbia of the tragic circumstances of the "gangsta" lifestyle which, apparently to my understanding, so many low-income young black men feel forced into whether they like it or not, no?

I had a friend & neighbor in college who had moved up from Atlanta and was trying to get away from that very kind of life. I could tell he didn't want to talk about details so I didn't ask. He was beginning to seriously get into Rastafarianism. He expressed to me his loathing of theo whole phenomenon, and how it's making the situation so much worse by heightening the vicious cycle and the draw to that lifestyle, because "it sells".

No, obviously we shouldn't just say clothing should be segregated. But, message to America: stop pouring money into the whole Gangsta thing. Support other non-self-destructive forms of artistic expression so these young men & women will see Gangsta doesn't sell anymore, and at least there won't be as many people becoming Voluntary participants in that game to "get rich".

As far as "black style", "urban clothing", whatever you want to call it, the part of the article I found interesting is how it seems there are an increasing number of black clothing designers in what was previously mainly all-white-male industry. The part about trying to define a particular style as a "black style", I dunno, the more I try to think about that, the more nonsensical it seems. The two sharpest dressers I know, both from the Golden Era, were Thelonious Monk and Cary Grant, for many of the same reasons.

So let's all shake hands


Swing High,
- C H

 

[Phil]

Sorry

I'm sorry Rosie, I didn't mean to sound like I want everyhting segregated. I'm not trying to say there is a set style for each race, I'm trying to say that people shouldn't try to be what they're not. This whole thread goes hand in hand with the political correctness thread.

 

[Rosie]

I'm sorry Rosie, I didn't mean to sound like I want everyhting segregated. I'm not trying to say there is a set style for each race, I'm trying to say that people shouldn't try to be what they're not. This whole thread goes hand in hand with the political correctness thread.

There isn't a need to apologize for what you feel. You are entitled to your opinion whether or not I agree with it. I just think that I person who purposefully goes to a store buys an item and then chooses to wear it in public knows what they are doing. Obviously they are dressing as the person they are or who they think they are, or who they want to be. I never wake up to find myself outside, dressed in clothing I didn't choose. This doesn't have anything to do with being politcally correct don't try to put it under that guise. You just feel what you feel and that's fine. I'll end here and bid you good day.

 

[Naama]

I don't really get the point......... Why is it such a bad thing if white kids listen to hip-hop, wear baggy clothes (ok, they look stupid, but whatever) and such things.... Most of the punk kids I knew where rich kids as well, and no one complained [huh] And I think it's quite the same! I'm in no way a fan of mainstream hip-hop, since it's not really something that you can like if you're a girl that thinks, maybe they somehow just can related to that...

Naama

 

[Matt Deckard]

I look at Sean Combs and Andre 3000 and wonder where they got their clothes. I found out. They have some cool looking suits. I dress my style and when i see something that looks ultra cool, it I must find. See Idlewild and the Untouchables and Casablanca. Everyone has their own style I can't seem to define it in black and white as I see white guys all around wearing what many would consider black attire.

I wear what i liek and they wear what they like. If I want the doo rag I'll get one of those. I just happen to prefer the fedora withoiut the bandana under. It's my style.

I admire Fred Astaire, Gary Cooper and James Stewart.
I admire Nat King Cole The Nicholas Brothers and Cab Calloway

I wish I had as much energy and style as Cab. He had "it".

 

[FredDairy]

I've seen this fashion before on, oh yeah! Wanna be white kids. I know it's somewhat racist to say that blacks should dress like blacks and whites whould dress like whites, but it's true. Myself, I dress in a t-shit and jeans. I see same kids walking down the halls dressed in Enyce and FUBU, acting "gangsta" and dropping "N" bombs. I don't get it, my town is a little white bubble. It's rich, white, and definitely not the ghetto. I certainly don't get why some of the kids call each other the "N" word. Yeah, the word was created by white people, but it's also a very negative word. If I found my kids saying such a word so loosely, I'd beat them, plain and simple. I just don't get some trends sometimes.

So should Elvis Presley and Jerry lee Lewis not have shopped at Lansky Brother's 50 years ago?

 

[McPeppers]

I agree with Matt. People should wear clothing based on their preference. If they like it they should wear it (well with restraint...just because a person wants to wear a plastic bag and nothing else doesnt mean they should).

Thats why I hate when people buy stuff to follow "fad fashion". Just because someone says its popular doesnt mean you have to go out and buy it. Right now its "in" for women to have black hole sized bags in which not even God could locate what they need. If you like that its cool and all but personally I have to give respect to those who still keep the small well-organized purse thing going on.

So I guess all I'm saying is if you are gonna wear something wear it for you...not for others

P.S. I don't follow trends partly because its too expensive to keep up with that stuff... so I guess I'll just stick to a nice suit and something to keep the hair out of the elements

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I know it's somewhat racist to say that blacks should dress like blacks and whites whould dress like whites, but it's true.

So, blacks should not wear Brooks Brothers sack suits, even if they want to? And whites should not wear Air Jordans, even if they want to?

.