BK's Site Relaunch

[walterwhyte]

Website is an improvement, although i quite liked the old one. Really can't get my head around the eye watering upcharge for Victory horse !! Over £1000 extra, that has to be a glitch in their new site surely ? Or perhaps they have found Shergar ?
Looking at their FAQ they still seem to be blowing their own trumpets a lot and putting them selves on a pedestal over other manufactures, bad taste if you ask me.
I'm surprised to see they don't have their Hercules in their new range? They made such a song and dance about how good their version was and how much the spent developing it.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Yes it is. That would be my choice of color.

How close is Victory to the Italian HH that Aero and Eastman or other use? I have a ELMC Californian and it similar to the Victory, except they do something with the finish. but parts of it look and feel similar, just much lighter weight leather. The Victory Duke is heavy. How heavy is the Aero Italian? It looks great in the pictures. Can it be had in different weights?

From swatches I’ve been sent recently from both Aero and Eastman the Vincenza from both appears to be the same leather, and even the writing on the back of the swatches seems to be in the same hand. It isn’t very heavy, and that isn’t what it’s about. It’s meant to drape the way period jackets did. Not to stand up by itself when new like Horween FQHH.

The Eastman Vintage HH is heavier and is a very nice looking leather, as is their FQHH which is as thick in the swatch I was sent as Horween CXL. It may even be from Horween. It seems identical to me. Again the writing on the back of the swatches seems to be in the same hand…..

I had a swatch from SB of their Clayton hide too, and the one I was sent is lighter still, but with the best grain of all of them. It would drape beautifully made up in the right jacket. Clayton make the leather for the Duke cricket ball which is the best ball, and lasts and takes a shine much longer than a Kookaburra. Sorry to all those who I’ve lost with the last couple of sentences.

 

[ausreenactor]

I bought a second hand BK Werber that I was told was Liberty hide. I bought it as the hide was the best looking leather I'd ever seen. Andy saw my post, contacted me via email and let me know that my hide was actually Antique Russet Victory hide. I've had/still have: Aero FQHH, Aero Goatskin, G&B Goatskin, LW FQHH, GW Shinki. The BK Victory Hide is the nicest by far and 2nd place is a mile away. The new website looks great. I always thought it was odd to have a website and feature totally different jackets on their Facebook page. Glad they put things together.

I have the antique russet Victory horsehide, in a Werber. Like you, I love it and have not had another A-2 like it. You pay $300 for a NOS zip as they don't make them anymore. I would assume the price difference is due to the lack of hides.

 

[ausreenactor]

Did anybody jump on the 50% discount last week? Damn...

 

[Justhandguns]

To me, I don't really care much about the design of those websites. The criteria for a good shopping website are 1. Good photos of the products which faithfully reproduce the actual appearances; 2. Easy to navigate and do searches; 3. Transparency of the pricing.

Frankly, I hardly browse through any of these websites unless I am planning to buy a jacket and doing my price matching.

 

[Otter]

Did anybody jump on the 50% discount last week? Damn...

Was that not a buy one, get one 50% off offer ?

 

[pawineguy]

Was that not a buy one, get one 50% off offer ?

Correct, buy one, get one 50% off.

 

[Jägernaut]

That dude must watch this site like a hawk. Or maybe he has a mole. He's already commented on superfluous's comments regarding bk's elitist attitude regarding its leather.

 

[pawineguy]

Anyone can purchase HH from the Victoria tannery. BK has merely private labeled a particular hide produced by the Victoria tannery. Himel recently visiting the Victoria tannery and I think he purchases hides from Victoria (from Himel's Instagram):

I remember you quoting from his email to you stating that jacket makers can't have tanneries make special leathers for them, that they don't do that, and that everyone can buy the same hides. Without directly comparing Vincenza, Shinki and Victory, because I can't, I just can't imagine that uncharge being correlated to the actual hide cost. It's undoubtably beautiful, and perhaps with it's limited availability, it's more about supply then anything else. From a marketing standpoint, it's not a bad idea to have a flagship product, and when it's in stock they can always run sales to bring it more down to earth.

 

[pawineguy]

That dude must watch this site like a hawk. Or maybe he has a mole. He's already commented on superfluous's comments regarding bk's elitist attitude regarding its leather.

The first comment on his FB post is priceless... I'm not a fan of public squabbling between manufacturers but he brings it on himself, especially the way he has criticized other companies, calling them "lazy" and knocking the leathers they use.

 

[nick123]

Pros: Website is really well done. They did a really good job. Good.

Cons: Victory upcharge. But maybe it is something out of their control. Or a glitch.

Music removal is to be decided.

 

[bretron]

I'm so glad they got rid of that music. Tho Platon once told me in his trademark manner that I could always hit the mute button lol!!

 

[bretron]

I do my best not to get wrapped up into the debates about naming rights, leather exclusivity and marketing posture. I'm no lawyer, don't own my own company, and have handled just a sliver of the repro jackets and leathers offered on the market today (Aero, GW, RMNZ, Norshor and BK aside). While I have admittedly taken part in at times pretty heated discussions in regards to the company, I have always settled on the fact that BK makes a great product at a very competitive price point (especially, if you're able to get one on sale), which is why I am finding myself in communications with them over a third jacket order

They are open to just about any job- from full bespoke work to repair/recraft services- and have an expansive line of available options to choose from. And, important to me, provided their email server is working or their not on holiday (lol), you usually hear back from them within about a day. As someone who tends to over communicate, I really value their patience and responsiveness to me! Had this new website been up and running earlier, they probably wouldn't have heard from me as much. I particularly like their sizing guide.

 

[Grayland]

That dude must watch this site like a hawk. Or maybe he has a mole. He's already commented on superfluous's comments regarding bk's elitist attitude regarding its leather.

Several makers watch this site like a hawk.

 

[handymike]

I took a look.
From my phone, it's hard to look at. Things don't load quickly, and it's hard to get things to enlarge. I think BK should use a thicker font that doesn't look all shakey when it's small.
I like all the lining options, just wish they weren't all an up charge. I like the simpleness of the white. It reminds me a bit of the DD site which is also a painful waiting game on my phone.
That Victory hide is beautiful Grayland!
Good luck with it Andy!
I hope BK is successful.

 

[Jägernaut]

I agree regarding his font. 4 inches from my face, it is extremely blurry. About a foot or more away, it clears up. We shouldn't have to deal with such things.

 

[CBI]

a fun site to visit and some super looking jackets!

 

[handymike]

That intro video is too much

 

[ProteinNerd]

I have always settled on the fact that BK makes a great product at a very competitive price point (especially, if you're able to get one on sale), which is why I am finding myself in communications with them over a third jacket order

This that still the case though? I'm sure they make really nice jackets...comparable wth all the usual suspects. However, their prices have gone from pretty reasonable, when I was considering them I think I was quoted approx £580 or something in that ball park to now looking at £800!

That website must have cost hell of a lot to justify that sort of price increase lol

So from being slightly cheaper than an Aero to now being £100 more than an Aero premier jacket in their Liberty hide or over £1100 MORE if I want the Victory hide.....I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at that?

 

[Superfluous]

BK continues to make questionable representations (euphemism intended).

On FB, BK responded to this thread with the following proclamation: “Victory horsehide is indeed the most expensive leather in the world.” I call BS! Several leathers are more expensive than Victory HH, including Porosus Crocodile (http://www.amtan.com/products.php?p=pocr), Python, Ostrich and Shargreen Sting Ray. Even among HHs, Victoria’s Victory HH is not the most expensive. Shell Cordovan HH is more expensive. Likewise, Shinki HH is more expensive.

In a September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK acknowledged to me that Shinki HH is more expensive than the hides used by BK (BK was using Victory HH at the time). BK wrote: “Chapman and Himel do have access to other leathers, including those used by BK, but they elect to pay more for Shinki because they believe in the virtues of Shinki leather.” In an e-mail this morning, Dave Himel confirmed that HH from the Victoria “tannery is 50% the cost of Shinki. . . . the price per foot is 50% less.” Himel explained that Victoria employs a “quick tan” process to tan its hides which takes less time, and is less expensive, than the pit tanning process employed by Shinki. Here is a photo of Victoria’s quick tan drums:

In the FAQ section of its new website, BK states that Victory HH is “done 100% by hand” (http://www.billkelsomfg.com/store/en.php?p=faq). The above photograph of Victoria’s tanning drum suggests otherwise.

In a September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK wrote: “If we had no customs issues we’d be using Shinki too from day 1.” In the same e-mail, BK stated that “[w]e are now seriously considering stocking some Shinki too.”

These are BK’s own words. Himel and Chapman “pay more for Shinki” and “if we had no customs issues we’d be using Shinki from day 1.” Yet, BK states on its new website and FB page that Victoria’s Victory HH is the most expensive and best HH. How can Victory HH be the most expensive if Himel and Chapman "pay more for Shinki”? Moreover, according to BK, the only reason is does not use Shinki is because of the “customs issues.” In other words, Shinki is too expensive.

In the FAQ section of its new website, BK states that their “leathers [are] developed by us and custom made for us” (http://www.billkelsomfg.com/store/en.php?p=faq). Yet, in a September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK stated as follows: “Tanneries will not customize according to buyers specifications. These are myths. Tanneries allow very little things that can be customized. One of them is the color. So the differences if the vendors buy from the same tannery are not due to the specifications but most likely due to the fact that they purchase different items.” Himel and Chapman have told me the same thing. Moreover, other jacket manufacturers can and do purchase HH from Victoria. As previously noted, BK acknowledged on September 10, 2014 that “Chapman and Himel do have access to other leathers, including those used by BK."

How is it that the Victory HH is “custom made for” BK if “tanneries will not customize according to buyers specifications,” hide customization is a “myth” and "Chapman and Himel [] have access to [] leathers [] used by BK"? Perhaps I am missing something, but these statements appear irreconcilable.

In the FAQ section of its new website, BK states that “[e]very single statement made in our website is absolutely true.” The foregoing suggests otherwise.

To be clear, I think Victoria makes top notch HH and the foregoing observations are not a criticism of Victoria hides.