Bill Kelso Mfg - Official Affiliate Thread

[andyfalzon]

Another new jacket for those interested to see.

 

[Xenophon]

Very nice, especially your new veg tanned leather! Which would be the jacket model that, assuming a standard (so trim for an A2 I guess but keep in mind I know nothing about these jackets) fit around the shoulders is the most close-fitting around the stomach/belly? The Werber?

Any plans on doing an A1?

 

[andyfalzon]

Hi, all A-2s are trim fit and there is no stomach/belly blousing problem if you get the right size. Werber is a nice choice.
Ref A-1, we make two kinds and they are some of the best in the market. You can see one (the early style) if you look at earlier posts in this thread and you can see the other (the Suit Up! style) here: http://www.billkelsomfg.com/3d/a-1/

I can assure you also, that we are the only brand who uses the correct leather for this style, i.e. capeskin. Nevertheless, we can make the jacket in any leather you like.

 

[Brettafett]

Andy, is that Horse or cow? The tag pic almost says seal brown ho... ? Seal or Dark seal? And are those rust or mid brown knits...?
Nice looking jacket btw...

 

[thor]

Gorgeous looking A-2! Every time I think I know which BK l'll order, some new pics pop up and I change my preference! Someday l will make up my mind...

 

[andyfalzon]

Hi Brett,
This is steerhide/cowhide, not horsehide. The tag reads horsehide because it repeats the Class 13 catalog info. The tag is for decoration only. The color is dark seal and the knits are medium brown. Unfortunately, none of the colors is depicted correctly in these photos. But the jacket is a beauty anyway.

This hide will be included in the samples I am sending you tomorrow.

 

[andyfalzon]

and another fine example

 

[HighandDry]

Of the Bill Kelso options, which contract is the slimmest fitting?

What are the major differences in fit between the contracts offered?

Thanks!

 

[andyfalzon]

The slimmest are Rough Wear, Werber, Monarch, Star.
The main differences are in the details, different shape collars, collars with or without collar stand, then there is the way the sleeve is installed in set (rotated) or on seam, different shape pocket flaps, stitching differences, colors of lining, knits etc. There are fit differences too. Each jacket will look different on you.

 

[Brettafett]

Just received the samples and all I can say is WOW! The character, colour and feel.... really great. If the jacket received has the character and feel of these samples, then...
Andy, thanks for the full inclusion of lining and thread also.
I just wish your VHH was available now, how long are we looking at until it will be available to order?
The Baladassi is beautiful, are these jackets the same price as the VHH ones?
I could hardly tell the diff between that and the HH... but I think I am a stickler for the HH.

 

[andyfalzon]

HH has different grain than steerhide. These hides are all FULL GRAIN. It means the grain is there. Saying that it is difficult to distinguish the grain between horse and steer comes from having seen only top grain hides. Top grain is a different finish; the grain has been buffed, sanded away or whatever so there is no more grain left to distinguish. They look the same. I will get back with your other questions.

For example

steer at the top
horse at the bottom

Not so hard to see here, as the grain remains intact.

 

[Jeff M]

It is easier to tell steer from HH when you are dealing with a tannery whose offerings you are familiar with.
Otherwise it is often not that easy to tell steer from horse.
For a long time there was a debate among collectors as to whether steer hide was used during WW2 to make A2 jackets. This was just recently laid to rest by Gary Eastman who tested vintage A2's and found steer hide was used. Wi

I know I have often found it difficult to tell steer from horse hide, there being so much overlap between thickness, and grain when you include the different processes different tanneries use in preparing their hides.

I have a GW A2 made out of steer hide that matches the grain of the horse hide sample you show;

and other horse hides that match your steer hide grain sample.

 

[Brettafett]

From the samples I received, for egs, comparing the Seal VHH and the Seal Baladassi... the grain and colours are very similar. I am not a seasoned pro regs leathers, but I have usually been able to 'easily' tell the difference between HH, Goat and Steer every time.
Anyway, these leathers, be they the VHH or the steer, are great.

 

[andyfalzon]

No Jeff,
Images can be deceiving. You cannot judge by looking only at images. Also images that weren't shot from the same distance or angle.
The photo you posted might look the same but it's not. The grain of horse is different. It is bigger and different.
Look at this steerhide

It looks the same, but it's not. Look:

Bigger

Different

See how different? You can't do this with steerhide.

The wwii are often indistriguishable because they are made with leathers that had most of their grain removed by buffing, sanding, grinding and other methods so that they can have a smooth surface. That's why they all look the same. With wear, rain and aging they developed wrinkles that are often mistaken for grain. Also whatever was left of the grain popped up but that is not enough to distinguish the leathers.

Also, patina is often mistaken for color fading. That is wrong. Patina is the darkening of the hide, not the color fading.
Chrome tanned top grain leather cannot develop patina.

Here's an example of patina

Here is another beautiful example of patina

and this is an example of color fading

 

[Capesofwrath]

No Jeff,
Images can be deceiving. You cannot judge by looking only at images. Also images that weren't shot from the same distance or angle.
The photo you posted might look the same but it's not. The grain of horse is different. It is bigger and different.
Look at this steerhide

It looks the same, but it's not. Look:

Bigger

Different

See how different? You can't do this with steerhide.

The wwii are often indistriguishable because they are made with leathers that had most of their grain removed by buffing, sanding, grinding and other methods so that they can have a smooth surface. That's why they all look the same. With wear, rain and aging they developed wrinkles that are often mistaken for grain. Also whatever was left of the grain popped up but that is not enough to distinguish the leathers.

Also, patina is often mistaken for color fading. That is wrong. Patina is the darkening of the hide, not the color fading.
Chrome tanned top grain leather cannot develop patina.

Here's an example of patina

and this is an example of color fading

Glad you posted that. It always irritates me when someone puts up a picture of a well worn, nearly worn out jacket and talks about its great patina.

In antique furniture patina is the colour and depth you can see into the wood after a hundred years of polishing in dust. Not surface scratches and wear. Brown Horween FQHH develops really good patina with the right treatment, and I don't mean scratches and finish loss either.

 

[andyfalzon]

I am glad you appreciate my post.
Patina on a jacket is supposed to make it look beautiful, not to make you look like homeless when you wear it.

Our tannery, to save you 100 years of waiting, can make leathers with very realistic patina finish as shown in this Werber A-2 here:

 

[Jeff M]

So one CAN always tell horse from steer. Interesting.
Why the debate among about whether steer hide was used on vintage WW2 A2's then?

 

[andyfalzon]

No Jeff. One can always tell horse from steer if he is looking at FULL GRAIN hides. (Because full grain shows what the animal has provided).

If the hides are TOP GRAIN (whether steer or horse), they tend to look the same, because all or most of the grain has been removed.

Full grain comes at a price - it can be 3 or 4 times more expensive than Top grain.

 

[Brettafett]

I am glad you appreciate my post.
Patina on a jacket is supposed to make it look beautiful, not to make you look like homeless when you wear it.

Our tannery, to save you 100 years of waiting, can make leathers with very realistic patina finish as shown in this Werber A-2 here:

This the antique VHH? With mid brown knits? Olive drab thread?

 

[andyfalzon]

This is the antique russet VHH. The thread is the medium brown. You can check it out in the samples we sent you.