Bill Kelso Leather Photo Review

[Canuck Panda]

Yes, it seems to me what they're doing is using that approach to, in effect, have a customer pay for the sampling process.

This is what I suspected but didn't know until now. In my BK Archive jacket experience I've gotten lucky. My BK Peter's was not the very first sample, there was another one before that popped up on his Facebook photos.

I don't agree with having customer pay for the sampling process. Not at £850 a jacket. Not even at $350 a jacket (5Star). I learned that the hard way.

So I should be more clear on my review of the Archive Line. I WOULD ONLY DO IT (again) IF I KNOW I AM NOT THE VERY FIRST SAMPLE.

I was going for a BK Archive Line leathertog after I've gotten the Peters. But I held back because I couldn't find any samples photos from the Facebook posts. BK has done a few D pocket La Brea one and now in his regular line, but not the Centinella studded one. So I will wait...

 

[Robbie79]

Bill Kelso (Exclamation Mark)

The Liberty horsehide. I am 99% sure it is the veg tan horsehide from Victoria SRL. It would be same/similar to Vicenza or Italian horse hides that the US makers uses. Very quality stuff. Mostly pigment/semi aniline. I've got the russet one, it has a coating on top, veg tan base, veg tan smell, on the lighter side of 3oz thickness.

Some straight out of the box jacket pics:
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Some fit pics: This is a stock size 44, no custom measurements. I went off the size chart on his web store. It has high armholes and not a lot of taper, but the design has corset side laces. Will post the measure pics in the next post because limits on pics per post.
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My personal findings and opinions about BK and his jacket:
1) The jacket shipped from Piraeus, Greece. There is no country of origin label. Given the choices of quality materials, my best guess is EU made.
2) The value of the Archive line is very good.
3) My order took almost 7 months. Ordered end of January, finalized in Feb, received today, August 16th.
4) I suspect the Archive line is produced at a different shop than the regular line items. Because the archive line was only available in Liberty horsehide and not Badalassi.
5) BK uses NOS zips throughout. Except the main zip which he uses the repro Talon. Probably no NOS with long enough zip tape. Lots of nice small repro details.
6) I understand personal relationship is a big part of the leather jacket business. I get why people don't want to give him business when they've been threatened with law suits or been called names. But putting all the personal issues aside, BK does make a very good jacket.

@Canuck Panda Congrats on this really nice BK and the fit is really good (but I would also prefer long pants). I really love my Aeronaut A-1 (dark seal Victory HH) and Aeronaut Cadet (russet Badalassi) as these size 38R (no modifications) are by far my best fitting jackets (everything feels right and made for my body shape). I‘ve also considered the Leathertogs Aviation Shinki (or Victory HH -> three months ago BK told me that final tests are ongoing before they start to offer Vic again….still my favorite leather but by far too expensive now) but the price was the deal breaker for me. I would have ordered it right away if the price would be in a range of FL (mainly due to the perfect and comfy fit in my case).

 

[Edward]

There is another company making only the Peter's repro jacket. A fellow member posted its website a while ago. It actually been around for a few years and some of us posted photos back then. I saw a couple of their jackets on Yahoo Auction a few years back. I think those are their test samples.
https://peterstailormade.com/en/products
https://www.facebook.com/nalu.tani/
There are also the copies of the FW San Mateo from China.

Those ones on the Peters link look really nice. I'm guessing pricey, though? Couldn't see a price listed.

 

[Blackadder]

Those ones on the Peters link look really nice. I'm guessing pricey, though? Couldn't see a price listed.

Around 270,000yen
https://nalu.co.jp/new-arrival/10883/

 

[Canuck Panda]

270k yen is about 1650 pounds.

BK's regular line leather tog is 1300 to 1795 pounds. The San Mateo is like 300k yen (1850 pounds).

Anything over 1000 pounds has nothing to do with the actual jacket anymore.

Why doesn't Aero get into the exact reproductions? It would make a lot of sense if they expanded their premier line staying true to the photos in the Tanaka book. Just a thought.

 

[Blackadder]

270k yen is about 1650 pounds.

BK's regular line leather tog is 1300 to 1795 pounds. The San Mateo is like 300k yen (1850 pounds).

Anything over 1000 pounds has nothing to do with the actual jacket anymore.

Why doesn't Aero get into the exact reproductions? It would make a lot of sense if they expanded their premier line staying true to the photos in the Tanaka book. Just a thought.

I doubt it is worth it to Aero because there are way more demand for Highwayman and simple halfbelts than a Leathertogs or Peter's. Difficult to set a price if Aero is unsure how many they can sell to split the pattern/design cost.

 

[Edward]

Around 270,000yen
https://nalu.co.jp/new-arrival/10883/

Ouch! About in line with a lot of the Japanese stuff, I suppose, but rather a lot more than my ceiling, I fear.

270k yen is about 1650 pounds.

BK's regular line leather tog is 1300 to 1795 pounds. The San Mateo is like 300k yen (1850 pounds).

Anything over 1000 pounds has nothing to do with the actual jacket anymore.

Why doesn't Aero get into the exact reproductions? It would make a lot of sense if they expanded their premier line staying true to the photos in the Tanaka book. Just a thought.

All comes back to the old market forces, I suppose. More than I'd be prepared to spend on a single jacket, but they must be able to get that for them or they wouldn't still be charging it...

I'd love to see what Aero could do with the likes of a Peters, but it is entirely plausible that it's just not a popular enough style for them to see it as worth the investment in working up patterns and having them graded. Even if they were to put it in one of the lines that is made to order (so no commitment to having stock hanging around for lower demand models), there's still a significant investment involved in getting it to that point on the roster. I remember somebody asking Ken years about about a B2 (which I'd love to see Aero do), but Ken was firmly of the belief - and I have no doubt he knows the business well enough to make a solid call - that there just wasn't any demand for it sufficient for them to be worth doing it.

I've always rather liked the Aero approach of doing what works and is possible within the framework of manufacturing techniques and design mores of the era, as distinct from just full on reproduction. If they ever did do something approach the Peters, though, I'd love to see it.

 

[TheBigEraser]

Around 270,000yen
https://nalu.co.jp/new-arrival/10883/

Has anybody on this forum ordered from them before? Their Instagram looks beautiful and seems to be able to any historical model of Peter’s.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Cooler Sunday morning I put on some mid rise mid wash basic jeans for the first time in a while... No shorts today

 

[Damon141]

270k yen is about 1650 pounds.

BK's regular line leather tog is 1300 to 1795 pounds. The San Mateo is like 300k yen (1850 pounds).

Anything over 1000 pounds has nothing to do with the actual jacket anymore.

Why doesn't Aero get into the exact reproductions? It would make a lot of sense if they expanded their premier line staying true to the photos in the Tanaka book. Just a thought.

I’ve thought the same about Aero, I thought they would do great with a line of select jackets with accurate labels and possibly use their Best machinist’s to take their time to make the finest possible jackets to compete with the best.
Ofcourse they could charge a premium.

They are surely one if it the best deal for a fine quality jacket especially given the fair prices, but I’m sure they could compare to the level of finishing that Freewheelers and RMC is known for but clearly each jacket would take more time but they could charge more for that line.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I’ve thought the same about Aero, I thought they would do great with a line of select jackets with accurate labels and possibly use their Best machinist’s to take their time to make the finest possible jackets to compete with the best.
Ofcourse they could charge a premium.

They are surely one if it the best deal for a fine quality jacket especially given the fair prices, but I’m sure they could compare to the level of finishing that Freewheelers and RMC is known for but clearly each jacket would take more time but they could charge more for that line.

Aero sells $1k jacket for $1k. Some brands tries to sell them for two to three times more. But deep down in their hearts they know how much it takes to produce a jacket and its fair price. This is why they try to come up with different patterns that no one else has and then charge a lot of money for them. This is also the reason why when my time of leathertog comes, I have no choice but to pony up for either the FW Centinella or the LW Leathertog B, both I would only get in deerskin and not horsehide, which makes the price go up even more. But deep down inside, I know and the brands know what the cost of the jacket is. This is where personal relationship helps to bridge the gap. If I like the maker more than the other it's easier to swallow the extra $2k. I would expect for at least a free beer or two or lunch to go with me spending that much more on the same leather jacket.

 

[tmitchell59]

First of all, your jacket looks great. Congratulations!

I have owned/own several BK jackets. There are a couple I would happily take back, but they are in strong hands. I find their use of the Achieve line to be most interesting. They contacted me about one of my jackets for the line, but I did not follow through.

Rather incredible you can choose one and have them make it. I don't know anyone that will do that. I understand it cost.

Good to hear your experience and see the results.

 

[tmitchell59]

The Liberty HH does have a similar feel to Italian HH that Buzz Rickson uses. Very stiff and not too thick. The Victory HH is a whole different leather.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Rather incredible you can choose one and have them make it. I don't know anyone that will do that. I understand it cost.

That was what made me pulled the trigger. And I am on the fence to do another one.

There are risks in developing new patterns. Bringing old jackets back alive is not as simple as sending some pics and measurements and expect perfect results. There was another Peters sample before mine from BK's sampling shop. Maybe there were some issues with the first sample that they corrected for my second shot at it. The photos looked longer on the first one. My shorter length seemed to be more correct for that time and with the Tanaka photos.

But the BK fit is not the same as other repros I have. Other repros are more or less vintage designs on modern patterns to make the wearer look good. BK pattern tries to stay old and flawed. Which I appreciate and find value in. One thing we gotta keep in mind was the lives and body shapes 100 years ago would be very different than what we are today.

A lot of the old jackets are not even in circulation anymore. It'd be nice to bring them back as close to original as possible.

 

[tmitchell59]

This album has Shinki, Liberty, Victory jackets for comparison.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1B81WFu46KePHpf79

 

[Canuck Panda]

The Liberty HH does have a similar feel to Italian HH that Buzz Rickson uses. Very stiff and not too thick. The Victory HH is a whole different leather.

I think Victory is different leather too. From your photos it looks transparent. In BK's marketing he said they are made in Tuscany. I suspect it is made in one of the boutique one pit tannery. Hence the volumn problem...etc. It's the name that confuses everyone. Victoria SRL is big outfit that supplied Liberty HH. And he named his golden goose Victoria HH which I don't think is supplied by Victoria SRL. But the names are so confusingly similar.
I think Robbie is on the fence with the expensive Victory HH jacket. I'd like to see the photos. Rediculously overpriced but very curious.

 

[tmitchell59]

Here are more Victory pic

https://photos.app.goo.gl/H8EqX9ixASxKccXSA

You guys are up to date on the various leathers out there. I've handled mostly vintage. So I'm not sure what other leather is most similar to Victory. I have not handled anything like it. It is very thick, heavy, but not stiff at all, very soft too. An odd combination. It is most unique, but worth what price?

 

[Blackadder]

I’ve thought the same about Aero, I thought they would do great with a line of select jackets with accurate labels and possibly use their Best machinist’s to take their time to make the finest possible jackets to compete with the best.
Ofcourse they could charge a premium.

They are surely one if it the best deal for a fine quality jacket especially given the fair prices, but I’m sure they could compare to the level of finishing that Freewheelers and RMC is known for but clearly each jacket would take more time but they could charge more for that line.

Aero does not do skiving and uses thick threads and needles so won't be that accurate.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Here are more Victory pic

https://photos.app.goo.gl/H8EqX9ixASxKccXSA

You guys are up to date on the various leathers out there. I've handled mostly vintage. So I'm not sure what other leather is most similar to Victory. I have not handled anything like it. It is very thick, heavy, but not stiff at all, very soft too. An odd combination. It is most unique, but worth what price?

I've always grouped Shinki / Vicenza and now Liberty in one group. And CXL in a seperate group.
BK Victory HH seems to be the hybrid of the two. Shinki Vicenza with CXL translucent finish. Which is very unique. I assume he knows that. And maybe his source also knows it now. And this explains the super high pricing?
All the marketing aside. It's on my leather list. But pricing keeps bumping it down the list.

 

[tweedydon]

Can we see closeups of your cap? Who made it?