Better fit

[Senator Jack]

Just took receipt of my third db suit from Joe Hemrajani. I think he's finally starting to get the armholes right. :eusa_clap

 

[Jovan]

It's amazing what a difference just a few decades make. My friend has a velvet jacket from the '70s with peaked lapels and its armholes fit perfectly.

 

[iammatt]

This is, to me, an instructive photograph on how sometimes things really stay the same. Pictured is a dinner jacket made in 1934, and a blue blazer made in 2006 both by the same tailor shop. The blazer was made for me, and the dinner jacket for somebody close to my size. I am wearing both. If anything, the armholes on the 2006 jacket are a touch higher than the DJ, but the difference is essentially negligible. Also worth noting is the presence of a larger sleeve than armhole which further aids mobility.

 

[Martinis at 8]

Yes, but I think the we were alluding to RTW and not custom as in bespoke or MTM.

Nevertheless, that new blazer looks smashing! :eusa_clap

M8

 

[aliados]

Can alterations solve the armhole problem?

I have a casual, unlined (but for the sleeves) linen jacket that has huge armholes and is about two inches too long on me. I don;'t think it'd fetch enough on eBay to bother selling (and it cost me next to nothing), so I think I'm going to try to salvage it by performing major surgery.

I believe that I may have solved the armhole problem -- in theory, at least. Before I put scissors to linen, I thought I'd run it past you folks, as maybe you will see the flaw, if any, in my procedure.

Seems to me the problem is two-fold -- large armholes coupled with overly wide shoulders. I may have hit upon a way to alter current jackets to solve both problems.

What I am going to attempt to do is as follows:
1. Remove the sleeves.
2. Take the jacket in at the shoulder, by (a) drawing a chalk line along the highest point of the shoulder (from neck to armhole) while wearing the jacket (which falls about 1" behind the original shoulder seam, on this particular jacket); (b) draw two chalk lines, each one inch from, and on either side of, the original chalk line; (c) open the original shoulder seam; (d) mark a new spot for the top of the armhole, about 1/2 to 1 inch closer to the neck than the original armhole (which will have the effect of making the shoulders closer together, without having to change the collar or back seams); (e) sew a new seam joining the second pair of chalk lines; (f) open on of the sleeve seams, and taper the sleeve to fit into the new, smaller armhole; and (g) replace the sleeves.

In theory, this will reduce the shoulder span, raise the armholes, and shorten the jacket evenly (to maintain the integrity of the bottom hem).

If this works, those of use who wear a regular length jacket can simply buy our suits in longs, and tailor them appropriately. (Those who wear longs are out of long).

Of course, this is most likely not a practical solution, as a tailor would most likely charge an unreasonable fee for this much work, but who knows?

So, what do you folks think? Am I missing something, or should it work? IAnd could this be applied to suit jackets in general?

Thank you for the advice I know I'll receive from all the you experts, tailors and seamstresses out there!

 

[RaasAlHayya]

That sounds like it might work quite well. I suggest you try it on a cheap thrift store suit to begin with (but you probably already thought of that.)

Please keep us updated if you do this experiment!

--Leslie

 

[aliados]

Actually, rethinking this, I believe it will work on this unstructured casual jacket, but for a suit jacket, the collar seam will have to be changed as well, else the back may buckle, and the bottom hem will curve so as to be lower in the middle . . .

 

[Marty M.]

Priorities straight.

This is, to me, an instructive photograph on how sometimes things really stay the same. Pictured is a dinner jacket made in 1934, and a blue blazer made in 2006 both by the same tailor shop. The blazer was made for me, and the dinner jacket for somebody close to my size. I am wearing both. If anything, the armholes on the 2006 jacket are a touch higher than the DJ, but the difference is essentially negligible. Also worth noting is the presence of a larger sleeve than armhole which further aids mobility.

To heck with that dinner jacket, I want those fabric bolts.
Marty Mathis

 

[Martinis at 8]

BTW, Matt Deckard did a nice write-up on this subject in issue #2 of Classic Style.

M8

 

[Matt Deckard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESI4rWns0rY

 

[Riposte3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESI4rWns0rY

Ha! Try doing that in any modern suit!

-Jake

 

[Sin Khan]

Ok, here is something official for you fellas to chew on. Here is a photo from the book,
Classic Tailoring Techniques, A Construction Guide for Men’s Wear
ISBN: 1-87005-43107. Page 37

Armhole - Too High/Low

Contrary to popular belief, the most comfortable armhole for a sleeve is one which is cut as high as possible without restricting the forward movement of the arm. A low-cut armhole is only comfortable if a sleeve is not attached. With a sleeve set into a low –cut armhole, raising one’s arm involves raising the entire side of the jacket.

The cutting edge of the fabric should be about 1” (2.5 cm) below the center of underarm.

Raise or lower the pattern the depth of the adjustment at mid-underarm, and at the top of the side seam, back and front. This adjustment at the top of the side seams is necessary to maintain the contour of the armhole.

The armhole should also be “scooped” slightly when the arm is resting at the side. Trim the fabric, a little at a time, until the wrinkles disappear.

Also, on page 19 is a diagram of the proper cut for a sleeve, notice that the top of the sleeve is designed to overlap the shoulder some before reaching and attaching to the top of the armhole. Too many suits these days use straight cut sleeves for ease of manufacture. Without this added sleeve fabric over the top of the shoulder, you will still raise the entire jacket on that side some when lifting your arm because the top of your shoulder muscle will now bunch up under your shoulder padding and not the top outer portion of the sleeve. If your armhole is too tight and your jacket does not have this extra sleeve fabric then it will also feel uncomfortable and if all you are focusing on is the sleeve armhole and not the extra fabric needed over the shoulder then you will not understand why your jacket still lifts up even though you do have proper fitting armholes.

:cheers1:

 

[Feraud]

It's amazing what a difference just a few decades make. My friend has a velvet jacket from the '70s with peaked lapels and its armholes fit perfectly.

Agreed.
I have sportcoats from the 60s/70s and suits from the 80s and the cut is not as well done than prior decades but much better than most current offerings.

 

[WA]

Back when many men wore suits and sports coats and blazers they had more to choose of the manufatured world for fit, so the armholes were not so deep. When few men are buying these types of clothes it is harder to get rid of these jackets at the end of the season, unless they make a more generic coat to "fit" all, to do so includes deepening the armholes.

Blame the hippie generation for todays deep armholes. But, if you go back further everything was custom made, so, even better than the manufactured. Even the poor had better clothes, but they paid for it, whereas, today, few men are willing to pay.

 

[Rittmeister]

I am new to this forum and I think it is great. For most of my life I have loved the 30's and 40's. I have had many vintage suits and jackets, as well as custom made from several tailors. I never understood the difference in cut and look until I read this forum. After studying hundreds of period pictures of suits and uniforms and working with tailors, I think the angle of the sleeve setting is as important as the armhole size. It appears that sleeves on older jackets were set so that entire sleeve pitched forward more. That is, if you look at a sleeve from the side, the older sleeves seem to be set at a 30 degree angle instead of 10 or 15. When worn, this created some extra fabric at the top back of the sleeve. As such, when the arm is bent at the elbow the sleeve does not ride up the arm as much. This combined with slightly more room across the back (as in drape cut suits) allowed for the sleeve to stay in place along the entire arm as it is moved. Modern suitmakers and tailors seem to dispise any wrinkles or extra fabric across the back. But then the suit only looks good when standing completely still. Has anyone else noticed the problem of sleeves riding up on modern suits, and often the back of the sleeve riding up more than the front? Are there any solutions other than sleeve setting and more room across the back? Thanks.

 

[Justdog]

Winnpeg tailor

Matt, did you see the cutaway on the first figure? It's like the one at Polka Dots! So, do you know the year of that picture you posted?

My guess is that it's Victorian or earlier.

And yes, it is all about the armholes! I have been very blessed to find as much vintage as I have, but when I have tried on a new coat, the fit is really nasty! I want to take it off! I'm spoiled with vintage. I can't bring my self to buy new because it fits so horrid!

It would be nice to find a guy that new what he was doing along the lines of a proper fit.

Root.

PS. There is a tailor in Winnipeg Manitoba that knows what he's doing! He's not cheap, but you will like what you get! He makes the coolest suits! I can dig up his info for those who would like it.

Sure I would like that info
Thanks

 

[Justdog]

I know the work your tailor from Canada made for you Rob. It's better than the suit I had made by Jorge in Long Beach... much better in my opinion. Biggest gripe I had was that Jorge made more of what he wanted than what I wanted and he leans toward the zoot suit look.

Your tailor looks like he made a suit that was spot on for the 30's. He couldn't do the skeleton taping over the seams, though it is 3/4 lined and the pattern matches well.

Zohar. If you ever get the chance I whole heartedly recomend the man.

Root still needs to post his pics of that suit. It is a double breasted suit with patch pockets and a belt back.

Rad.

Have you got the link to the pics in that thread?

 

[Justdog]

Armpits

See in this pic, the back of the armhole hooks under the armpit... high cut. No chicken wing effect.

High enough to place newspaper in your pit.

Gotcha good definition.

Excellent pic and nice suit

 

[Justdog]

See in this pic, the back of the armhole hooks under the armpit... high cut. No chicken wing effect.

High enough to place newspaper in your pit.

Thats very wierd but true. I hate to have short armsleeves. A few suit jackets I have vary from 24 to 26 inches. A wool jacket I have has 23.
I can hold my arms out in the 23 and the sleeve cuff stays at the wrist.
I tested the underarm newspaper statement and low and behold fits snug in the pit. Very interesting observation. All suits are certainly not created equal.

 

[Matt Deckard]

It's stuff like this that throws me. See how constricting that is.