Better Deal - Optimo or VS

[winter_joe]

I own hats by both, and you can't go wrong with either. I do think they each have some advantages: you won't find a better hat maker than Art for the price, and his hats are definitely the best bang for your buck. He's also a joy to work with (not that Optimo isn't) and is extremely passionate about what he does. That said, Optimo can do some things that VS can't, like their no-dye silverbelly, their long hair/meleusine felts, and the like.

winter_joe - Optimo doesn't advertize their tall crowns very much, I suspect because they don't think they sell as well, but they're very much capable of making tall-crowned hats. The crown they use for the Cagney is an excellent crown for a 30's style hat and is pretty straight as well (it only looks tapered in the picture of the Cagney on the website due to the type of crease they put in it)

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say there mulcebar I wasn't trying to say they don't it's just there thing with modern styling, where art doesn't really do that. Just trying to list differences is all not that either is inferior I love both customs I got from both of them.

 

[Rabbit]

Frankly, I believe one of the primary reasons I have almost 100 hats (pales in comparison to many here) is that I've made lots of mistakes, both in custom and in vintage. Of course now that I have so many hats, I simply consider myself "versatile." For instance I have had some specific ideas about what I want in a hat, and usually they aren't readily available in vintage, and I've discovered through trial and error, that all custom hatters have their own unique repertoire of strengths.

I think you bring up some important points, Jeff. I'd like to add one thing.

wgiceman, if you want to spend your dollars wisely, I suggest you deliberate A LOT on how you want your first custom hat from either Optimo or VS to look like.

Financially, it won't matter a few years from now which hatter made your custom hats, provided you bought the right hats in the first place. Think, deliberate, don't rush it. Research this site, collect images from the relevant threads.

The point is that if you're not specific about what you want when you commission your hat (or hats), you might get different advice from these two hatters simply because their emphases are a bit different, as pointed out before.

Oh, and for the record, you WILL make mistakes in matters of headgear just like all of us do, but try to avoid doing them anyway.

 

[Tomasso]

Oh, and for the record, you WILL make mistakes in matters of headgear just like all of us do, but try to avoid doing them anyway.

Over the years there seems to have been a lot more VS hats up for sale in the classifieds than those from Optimo. I tend to think that it's because the VS remote purchase model is more prone to mistakes and unlike a purchase from an online hat store a custom hat can not be returned.

 

[kaosharper1]

Over the years there seems to have been a lot more VS hats up for sale in the classifieds than those from Optimo. I tend to think that it's because the VS remote purchase model is more prone to mistakes and unlike a purchase from an online hat store a custom hat can not be returned.

I don't think you can make that generalization. I'm not sure, but I doubt, that Optimo takes returns on custom hats unless there are defects. You'll also notice that the VS thread has many more entries here than Optimos. That may mean something too, but it may just mean more FL members buy VS hats which would also explain why more show up in the classifieds.

 

[suitedcboy]

The nature of hat acquisition is why hats get sold. You think you want a brown tall crown with 3 inch brim and unbound edge. Then after a time you realize the "new" has worn off and the 2 1/2 brim with bound edge is the one you always seem to grab and wear and the 3 incher sits in the box until you want a new gray 2 1/2 inch bound edge. Then the 3 incher gets listed here.
I agree about the numbers of VS hats is greater. I had an Optimo that I sold. It wasn't getting worn and its quality wasn't so off the map that I needed to keep it as a museum piece.

 

[Mulceber]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the fact that more VS hats are sold on the lounge is due to a greater number of lounge members buying VS hats.

Another thing to take into consideration is whether you live anywhere near either of these two hatters. Both Art and Optimo do a great job of producing hats based on telephone and email conversations, but if you're in a position to either visit Optimo or meet Art in person to get measured, conformed and talk about what you want, you should jump at the opportunity. The personal experience adds a wonderful dimension to the hat-buying process, and while I haven't had the opportunity to meet Art in person, I can say from many email correspondences that he is the kindest person you'll ever do business with.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Over the years there seems to have been a lot more VS hats up for sale in the classifieds than those from Optimo. I tend to think that it's because the VS remote purchase model is more prone to mistakes and unlike a purchase from an online hat store a custom hat can not be returned.

This is due to Optimo sells more to a customer that does not generally post on this forum. Since Art has been repairing and making hats since this forum started for it members. There are a lot more that are posted here because the purchaser found out about Art thru seeing his hats here. With the conformer fit you really do get a perfect fit.

 

[TheDane]

Over the years there seems to have been a lot more VS hats up for sale in the classifieds than those from Optimo. I tend to think that it's because the VS remote purchase model is more prone to mistakes and unlike a purchase from an online hat store a custom hat can not be returned.

I tend to think, you more or less misunderstood Rabbit's comment about making mistakes. As I read Rabbit, his point was not related to the measuring/conforming part of the purchasing process.

In case of any mistake/error, it's my impression, that most custom hatters will go many extra miles to correct it. It's also my impression, that we talk about a very small number of deals, were anything goes wrong. I have heard of a number of hats, going back to a custom hatter for corrections, so error-correction is indeed possible.

In all respect, Sir: I don't think your theory is right

 

[Rabbit]

I tend to think, you more or less misunderstood Rabbit's comment about making mistakes. As I read Rabbit, his point was not related to the measuring/conforming part of the purchasing process.

In case of any mistake/error, it's my impression, that most custom hatters will go many extra miles to correct it. It's also my impression, that we talk about a very small number of deals, were anything goes wrong. I have heard of a number of hats, going back to a custom hatter for corrections, so error-correction is indeed possible.

In all respect, Sir: I don't think your theory is right

You're right, Dane, that's not the kind of mistake I was referring to.
Well, what I meant was that when making choices for the specs of custom commissions one should be very careful, simply because a custom commission of any kind is a blank sheet. You have so many options to choose from, so it's only natural that doing your homework on the subject will improve the outcome.
If money is less of an issue, then these considerations are less important as well because one can learn rather fast after making a few mistakes.

To the original poster:
So, if you want your very first custom hat to be your perfect hat, I suggest you find out whether you really want the hat specs the way you chose them, or whether you chose them that way "just because you can". Simple is often better.
And for the record: You will of course get very good advice from either hatter, there's no question about that. Nevertheless, the discussion usually starts somewhere from your own ideas on what you want your hat to look like.

In case you didn't know, Art does a conform fit by sending you a conformer per mail. Optimo on the other hand does a conform fit in the shop only, as far as I know.

 

[Tomasso]

I tend to think, you more or less misunderstood Rabbit's comment about making mistakes. As I read Rabbit, his point was not related to the measuring/conforming part of the purchasing process.

Sorry but you have misunderstood me if you think I am including sizing/fit issues when I am referring to mistakes. Sizing/fit is probably the only aspect of the remote purchase model that is not problematic.

 

[frussell]

My guess would be that more members here have multiple VS hats than Optimo hats, and some, like myself, occasionally sell a less-worn one to finance another VS. For some of us, that's not economically feasible at Optimo's prices. Lots of us are always planning that next "the one" hat, and Art's prices and bang for your buck make that search a pleasure. The classifieds here are a good place to aid that quest, as his quality is known here, and the seller is likely to get a decent return, and the buyer can be secure they will get their money's worth. Frank

 

[TheDane]

Sorry but you have misunderstood me if you think I am including sizing/fit issues when I am referring to mistakes. Sizing/fit is probably the only aspect of the remote purchase model that is not problematic.

In my opinion, that makes the problem even smaller. Most remote-working custom hatters (if not all) will provide you with felt samples - and often samples of a collection of ribbon as well. Furthermore you usually have long conversations by phone or email, helping the customer over the most obvious pitfalls. Of course mistakes happen, but I believe them beeing quite rare among people on this forum.

That Art's hats sell more in the 'Classifieds' than Optimo's is probably - as other loungers have already pointed out - due to the fact, that Art's hatting more or less was born with The Lounge. He has learned and developed over the years, and loungers have followed the process with enormous interest and bought lots of his hats. There are probably a lot more VS' than Optimos among loungers, which very well could be a/the reason. Well, it's two different beliefs, and which one (if any) is objectively right, is hard to determine

@Rabbit (quite OT): I know you moved, but have you always lived in Germany? I had you placed in the US. Sorry, if that was wrong - and welcome to 'the mainland', if not

 

[Rabbit]

With the current discussion going on, I'd be interested to learn whether or not Optimo has a full set of 52-ish blocks. I haven't seen any images of Optimo hats that looked like they were blocked as straight as that or nearly as straight, for that matter.
The reason I'm asking is that I've read posts of several loungers, Matt Deckard among them, who when requesting to see such blocks in the Chicago shop(s) were shown blocks that didn't meet their description. However, the last of these posts must have been years ago.
And yes, I've seen the previous post here about the Cagney model on Optimo's website.


off topic:

@Rabbit (quite OT): I know you moved, but have you always lived in Germany? I had you placed in the US. Sorry, if that was wrong - and welcome to 'the mainland', if not

I've always lived in Germany. Well, I realize that the location given in my avatar is a bit obscure.

 

[jamespowers]

I own both go with VS--no problems.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

FWIW I have an Oxblood Optimo diamond crease with a VERY straight sided crown.

 

[jlee562]

With the current discussion going on, I'd be interested to learn whether or not Optimo has a full set of 52-ish blocks. I haven't seen any images of Optimo hats that looked like they were blocked as straight as that or nearly as straight, for that matter.
The reason I'm asking is that I've read posts of several loungers, Matt Deckard among them, who when requesting to see such blocks in the Chicago shop(s) were shown blocks that didn't meet their description. However, the last of these posts must have been years ago.
And yes, I've seen the previous post here about the Cagney model on Optimo's website.


off topic:



I've always lived in Germany. Well, I realize that the location given in my avatar is a bit obscure.

I have the same question as well. Was told my Dilinger was blocked on a 52 (in that they explicitly said that they could put it on their 52 block when I asked for a straighter crown than appeared on their website), but there seems to be a bit of taper to me. Might be the crease doing it however.

 

[Rabbit]

FWIW I have an Oxblood Optimo diamond crease with a VERY straight sided crown.

I've seen the pics as well as all the other pics in the Optimo thread; I had saved them on my harddrive and just viewed them again.
It's not a 52 type block.

 

[Rabbit]

I have the same question as well. Was told my Dilinger was blocked on a 52 (in that they explicitly said that they could put it on their 52 block when I asked for a straighter crown than appeared on their website), but there seems to be a bit of taper to me. Might be the crease doing it however.

That's exactly what I mean, and I'm positive the crease can't change this. Or rather, even a 52 blocked crown creased with 1920s style side dents still looks like a 52 block with, well, side dents. The block shape of the crown remains perfectly visible.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've seen the pics as well as all the other pics in the Optimo thread; I had saved them on my harddrive and just viewed them again.
It's not a 52 type block.

I am not referring to my Dillinger fedora. I have a second Oxblood that has a 4-point diamond crease that was made with a taller, more straight sided crown. I will see about posting pics tomorrow since I will be dressed up for a job interview.

 

[jlee562]

Perhaps Robert can chime in with some insight. I definitely feel as if I've seen some really straight sided re-blocks from Optimo.