Best of the Non-Authentic A2's?

[Ugarte]

Mark as long as you're happy with it that's all that matters.

Sure John, I took no offense at your opinion. I only mentioned that I like the jacket -- you did notice that I mentioned that I like it, didn't you? -- because you said that you didn't care for it, but you didn't really mention what specifically you didn't like. Now, I need no explanation or justification of what you don't like about the way that jacket fits, though I am curious as to what specifically you don't like. Of course I do understand that, as you say it's all a matter of personal taste really. I mean, you don't have to wear it.

I would say that your opinion is not without some credibility as you purchased a Cooper and returned it because your first-hand experience did not find it a favorable jacket. This is hardly unheard of. From my understanding folks looking for close copies of vintage jackets are frequently put off by the Cooper. I had serious reservations when I got mine, but again, as a jacket I have come to like it quite a bit. I find that I wear it often despite the fact that I have several jackets to choose from.

And these are points that the OP should find some value in; the Cooper may or may not be what he is looking for.

What opinions I or anybody else expresses matters not at all. Of course by posting your jacket on a public forum then you are of sending an open invitation for critique whether positive or negative. I was speaking from a point of view of how I like my jackets to fit. it's simply a matter of personal taste.

Sure, the critique was neither harsh nor in any way inappropriate. A little more detail might help observers form their own judgments about how such a jacket "should" fit and impart some of your own valued experience into the conversation. But of course you are correct -- different courses for different horses.

If I took any notice of my Wife's opinions of my vintage leathers I wouldn't wear any of them. May you enjoy your Cooper for many years to come.

Thank you sir. And good luck with that wife.

Mark
.

Edit: If you want to see what I think is a poor fit, I will see about posting some pics of my two and three-button suits. They look like wool ponchos for pity's sake.

 

[jon z]

Sure John, I took no offense at your opinion. I only mentioned that I like the jacket -- you did notice that I mentioned that I like it, didn't you? -- because you said that you didn't care for it, but you didn't really mention what specifically you didn't like. Now, I need no explanation or justification of what you don't like about the way that jacket fits, though I am curious as to what specifically you don't like. Of course I do understand that, as you say it's all a matter of personal taste really. I mean, you don't have to wear it.

Hey Mark, of course I got the point that you like the Cooper & I'm happy that you do. It's not that I don't like it, it's just not my thing. As you asked though it appears lightweight (the example I received was) &, for me, has that blousey look that plagues modern day fashion. It also appears too wide across the body from arm seam to arm seam for me.

Sure, the critique was neither harsh nor in any way inappropriate. A little more detail might help observers form their own judgments about how such a jacket "should" fit and impart some of your own valued experience into the conversation. But of course you are correct -- different courses for different horses.

This is not an A2 but is of the bomber style & for me has a look of substance with a boxier silhouette tapering nicely from shoulders to waist in the back view. I find it hard to quantify the difference between captaincaveman's & yours. Put simply his pics make me want one, yours don't. A very personal emotive thing I guess.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=47657

Thank you sir. And good luck with that wife.

And thank you. I need it lol

BTW if you'd like the opportunity to return the favour & say why one of my jackets is not for you here's my thread with me wearing one of my vintage Half Belts. Feel free to fire at will.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=48245

John

 

[Ugarte]

I'd say the jacket in that thread looks pretty good and fits well. I like the way it looks from the back better, though I too noticed that the half belt was unusually high. I suspect I'd like the look of it better if it were unzipped, but it looks fine and if you like it that's what matters.

As for the blousier cut of the Cooper A-2, I have, er, a somewhat blousey body. If buying clothes says anything I tend to have broad shoulders and short arms and torso. Dreadfully hard to buy off the rack and competent alterations are hard to come by down here.


Mark
.

 

[jon z]

I'd say the jacket in that thread looks pretty good and fits well. I like the way it looks from the back better, though I too noticed that the half belt was unusually high. I suspect I'd like the look of it better if it were unzipped, but it looks fine and if you like it that's what matters.

As for the blousier cut of the Cooper A-2, I have, er, a somewhat blousey body. If buying clothes says anything I tend to have broad shoulders and short arms and torso. Dreadfully hard to buy off the rack and competent alterations are hard to come by down here.


Mark
.

You're too kind. In response to my opinions of your jacket you had every right to be a lot harsher. The half belt position has drawn a lot of attention but it doesn't bother me for this reason. It is a true vintage jacket so it can't be said that's it's wrong. You could if is was a repro that it could be shewn not to be true to an original. It may be unusual but the fact that I have a jacket with the belt in this position is evidence that back in the 50s(?) there were half belts positioned higher than that accepted as the norm by current repro makers & their customers.

You've made me feel unkind now. I had completely overlooked the possibility that your figure demands a blousier style. I have the 'problem' that I'm of relatively slim build with narrow shoulders. Maybe that's why modern jackets seem way too wide across the shoulders for me & the slimmer vintage items seem a better fit.

 

[captaincaveman1]

I've got to register a vote for the Cooper. I picked up a goatskin Cooper for my first jacket and never looked back. For my money it was the most useful leather jacket purchase I've made. Nowhere near as faithful as the repro jackets available for quite a bit more money, but very satisfying to wear.


Mark
.

That jacket fits your frame very well. Although I don't think it would fit me as well. The LL Bean bomber referenced in the other thread is definitely a slim cut. I ordered a US-A in size 42 and I was swimming in it - I think it has a blousy cut despite the claims on the website that it's a military cut.

 

[Ugarte]

You've made me feel unkind now. I had completely overlooked the possibility that your figure demands a blousier style. I have the 'problem' that I'm of relatively slim build with narrow shoulders. Maybe that's why modern jackets seem way too wide across the shoulders for me & the slimmer vintage items seem a better fit.

I don't know how old you are, but when I got into my mid-30's my metabolism started to work against me. I've fought it, but my once athletic/husky build has resulted in what I am now, and vintage just doesn't seem to be the ticket for me. Sure, I could control my appetite and work more cardio again, but life is short.

I just wish I could get single-breasted suits that fit for beans off the rack at Penny's. This is one reason I've acquired double-breasteds. They don't seem to have this problem. Bulky outerwear? I'm okay with that.

You're fine John. Just keep on keeping on.

Peace. Out.


Mark
.

 

[captaincaveman1]

What do you guys think of the Cockpit USA (former Avirex)?

I've heard thier jackets disparaged on this jacket for thier cut and their side entry pockets. But they do indeed make a horsehide WW2 replica according to mili specs w/o side entry pockets. What's wrong with this garment? Talk me out of it... it's only 390 bucks and the goat is 330.

http://www.cockpitusa.com/store/product.php?productid=17334&cat=420&page=1

I'm keenly interested because they have a showroom in NYC and I plan on paying a visit this Saturday. I'd like to try on their sizes and perhaps buy one if the fit/quality passes muster. I hate buying clothes site unseen. Too damn risky.

I was initially attracted to Cockpit after seeing this review:
http://www.filmjackets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2059


This is the Pearl Harbor model. The fit looks really good which is what tuned me in to Cockpit's other garments. Definitely not a "fuller cut" so common nowadays w/ even the better repros.


(here's a pic from the FJ review)

 

[Ugarte]

That jacket fits your frame very well. Although I don't think it would fit me as well. The LL Bean bomber referenced in the other thread is definitely a slim cut. I ordered a US-A in size 42 and I was swimming in it - I think it has a blousy cut despite the claims on the website that it's a military cut.

Thank you sir. I noticed that bomber jacket you mention and I thought it looked quite good.

When I was in junior high school I received a similar jacket as a gift from Sears. It was brown and I still have it, though the knit cuffs are shot. I wore the crap out of it until I received my high school letterman's jacket.

At any rate, my G-1 copy didn't look that good despite that fact that in those days I had about a 28-inch waste. I think the jacket in the pics you posted looked very nice indeed and I can see what would attract john to that cut.

I sense that I have threatened to hijack the OP's thread and for this I apologize. It was all in an effort to explore the possibilities of the more affordable A-2 jackets out there. Sorry OneEyeMan and good luck on the quest.


Mark
.

 

[captaincaveman1]

Ugarte, age is a battle no one will win. lol My hairline is receding faster than the arctic ice cap and no matter how much cardio I do I still can't lose a single pound. :rage:




OK, so anyone have experience with Cockpit USA's WW2 repros? Most of their stuff falls into the category of non-aunthentic but affordable A-2's.

 

[James Miller]

A great jacket for the money!

Has anyone heard of www.usbomberjackets.com they have nice Military spec. Goatskin and they won't brake the bank. They are not WWII Jackets but they are cut after the late Cooper jackets.

 

[Stearmen]

Cockpit

OK, so anyone have experience with Cockpit USA's WW2 repros? Most of their stuff falls into the category of non-aunthentic but affordable A-2's.

I had a Avirex, which I believe is the same as the Cockpit. It was nice, heavy leather and lining, plus pretty accurate. I like the pockets, nice scallop! Oh, and the throat latch actually worked, not that I ever used it! Sold it to a Security guard, when I saw him come up the drive I thought for sure he wouldn't buy it, he was, shale we say, horizontally gifted! He could not get the zipper closer then about mid point on his waist. He did buy it, and at the asking price. I still have a mental picture of him walking his beet at night, with my ill fitting jacket, thinking he is the Baddest Mother on the planet!

 

[Fiver64]

Cooper

I've had a few Coopers, on and off, over the years. Best bang for a reasonable buck (IMHO), and they don't try to pass themselves off as anything they are not.......... like dead-nuts authentic. Most can be had used for $50 to $100 on the bay. Close enough for most folks and if it makes you happy...............

As for the Avirex A-2......... I had one of the HH a-2's before they became cockpit. Most comfortable and best fitting jacket I ever had! I miss it dearly, but it seemed to shrink mysteriously over the years. Great leather quality, good color, correct back panel, nice russet cotton liner and well-made collar (the big downer on Cooper jackets). I'd buy another if I could find one in my size.

 

[captaincaveman1]

As for the Avirex A-2......... I had one of the HH a-2's before they became cockpit. Most comfortable and best fitting jacket I ever had! I miss it dearly, but it seemed to shrink mysteriously over the years.

Thanks. I'm going to the flagship store in NYC tomorrow. I'll try to take pics and report back to the gang.

BTW, I have the exact same problem except it happens to my pants! Strangely, only the waist band shrinks but the leg length stays the same. Curiouser and curiouser...[huh]

 

[apba1166]

Beaters.
I've had plenty of cheapies and throw-arounds over 30 years. A new 1980s Cooper with removable lining, looked good but didn't take beatings real well, and the leather tore and wore through in a couple spots (lot of outdoor work). 2 new Avirex's (1980s), 1 goat a2, 1 a black nubuck bomber, both wore great, comfortable too, easy on/off, throw around. The nubuck suffered all kinds of abuse, rain, mud, work, and has been in the closet for years, but intact, nubby and nice, like it shed its skin, I miss it. LL Bean w/wool lining and wool collar someone left here, it worked, and good over sweaters. A new Mirage G1 with a rain hood zipped in a stand-up collar, this also wore great, still alive 25 years later, though shrunken. An ebay Chinese Eddie Bauer, cow, I liked a lot--very simple jacket, clean lines. But maybe the best deal of all was an old Leather Shop from Sears, a giveaway from a friend's garage sale years ago. I think it might be horse--cannot figure what it is--my kids beat it, then I found it and have beat it double--you can't wear it out. Leather now a bit thin in spots but thing still looks good, and fits great. Doesn't even look dirty or worn. Amazing jacket.

Nice.
An Argentinian porcupine suede bomber. Reminds me of the Avirex nubuck, but better. Started a bit small but molded great after a year of wear. Love this jacket.
A no name Italian black lamb bomber with green flannel lining. Amazing what a nice lining means.
A no name horse A2, seal brown, medium weight, not shiny, more like brushed with all the scratches, but it just gets better all the time. Comfy.
A Schott goat G2, bought new in 1983, with red fox hood I zipped right off and stored in a box, while the jacket slowly shrunk or I expanded. But my son has taken it on.

 

[regius]

I disagree with the saying that "US Authentic horsehide" fits well, this is unacceptable to me, but of course, I must have a very different body type. I had a US-A horse, the arm holes are too big, no gusset, and the shoulders are too boxy, the whole thing just feels like a Gumby.

 

[ButteMT61]

Every body is different. What might work for me, may not work for you and vice-versa.
That's a fact!

 

[regius]

I've had a few Coopers, on and off, over the years. Best bang for a reasonable buck (IMHO), and they don't try to pass themselves off as anything they are not.......... like dead-nuts authentic. Most can be had used for $50 to $100 on the bay. Close enough for most folks and if it makes you happy...............

As for the Avirex A-2......... I had one of the HH a-2's before they became cockpit. Most comfortable and best fitting jacket I ever had! I miss it dearly, but it seemed to shrink mysteriously over the years. Great leather quality, good color, correct back panel, nice russet cotton liner and well-made collar (the big downer on Cooper jackets). I'd buy another if I could find one in my size.

Hi there, do you think Cockpit horsehide has gone down in quality from their Avirex pre-carnation? I can't help but think the Cockpit showroom in new york is full of paper crispy horsehides.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I cast my vote for US Authentic as far as looks, materials, and overall feel. Although they are massively heavy as was mentioned earlier, they feature 100% worsted wool knits which are not prone to the awful pilling that invariably happens to the wretched acrylic blend material that is so often used by lesser makers. My second choice would be some of the numerous older Avirex jackets. Some were junk for sure, but a few were actually not too shabby. I've owned a few Coopers and a Gibson and Barnes, but the synthetic fibers in the knits were a deal breaker as they say. Also the leather on Cooper jackets just has an odd stiffness for a thinner goatskin that made mine not drape to my liking. Another generic that I've found to be wearable, is an old Banana Republic jacket that I picked up on ebay. They have a one piece back and the knit parts made of nylon which has so far not succumbed to pilling.

 

[regius]

Some pictures of Gibson n Barnes Mark 31 (43, 41, can't remember) Horsehide and an AMAZING RARE Cooper with blood chit!!! and my beloved beloved Willis & Geiger after tailoring, these french tailors in new york can make the A2 jacket better than the original makers.

This is GnB russet horse, sorry for the bad lighting, I just have to get these photos up, as there seems no photos of GnB here!

 

[regius]

The mirror makes my head very big.
This is the Cooper with blood chit.