Best black biker for non-biker?

[TheMarriedHermit]

I agree with your view. At some point all new threads could be killed at the start with "discussed before - use search!" if we follow that logic. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not here only for the information, but also for the discussion with people who share some of my interests.

Discussions are fun and profitable ONLY when there is respectful disagreement and well-reasoned difference of opinion and view-point.

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[FREEradical]

It doesn't indicate anything at all to you. Top stitching indicates a great deal to me. In fact, subtle, well executed top stitching is exactly the type of detail that I personally value and emphasize. In my opinion, it adds an element of craftsmanship, skill, attention to detail and uniqueness that distinguishes one jacket from another. Well executed, subtle top stitching can transform a hunk of leather into an artisan garment. I personally disfavor jackets with no visible stitching. In my personal, subjective opinion, many of the jackets with no visible stitching look bland and lacking in quality. You obviously disagree. We discussed these issues in the prior top stitching thread.

Separately, I am not sure that all top stitching is purely decorative. For example, top stitching adjacent to a french seam may increase the strength of the seam (admittedly, I am not an expert and I may be totally wrong about this).

Actually, a french seam is a stronger and more labor intensive method of construction than a top stitched seam. The French seam isn’t merely decorative, it’s also very robust.

 

[Jejupe]

Discussions are fun and profitable ONLY when there is respectful disagreement and well-reasoned difference of opinion and view-point.

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Agreed. That’s usually the case in TFL. One of the reasons why I like this place!

 

[FREEradical]

So using your advanced list of criteria, understanding that they are particular to you, where do you come down in terms of your ultimate classic black cross zip? It would be great if other advanced buyers could also provide their own takes.

Definitely the Real Mccoys Buco JH-1. It’s crazy expensive but also crazy beautiful. French seams throughout, understated but still edgy as a cross zip should be in my opinion. My favorite aspects are the mismatched hardware, brass zips and chrome snaps and the buffalo plaid wool liner - seriously cool.

 

[Bigbenbs]

Only fair enough to throw the ball back into my court.

As I was thinking about this, I realized that part of my sense of confusion came from the fact that the black cross-zip biker is such a paradigmatic category, like the cafe racer and A2, and that the permutations within that category can get highly subtle. I know other jacket models work in the same way. But when I got the Aero Hooch Hauler, which was my first high-level leather jacket, I wasn't interested in a paradigm of jacket per se, but was rather just wowed by that particular jacket. I am also wowed by the A2 model and classic black biker cross-zip but have found it somewhat more difficult to appreciate the relevant distinctions. So I could have just as easily started this thread about the A2. I was just reading another thread about how much certain members loved Langlitz so decided to start with the biker to try get some perspective.

I tried to capture a bit of some of the collective wisdom shared in an earlier post, so that can just stand there. But I'd say what I've learned is that I need to a) find a non-bank busting way of getting my hands on more and more jackets to get a more grounded sense of certain practicalities and 2) start trolling through loads of pictures and prior threads to begin differentiating for myself what I find most appealing, using some of the advanced criteria given by Superfluous. And then once I've reached a certain maturity in that process, it may be time to 3) invest in a very high-quality hunk of hide, and to not cut corners for the sake of a few $, but to make sure I get exactly what I'm yearning for.

 

[Carlos840]

Only fair enough to throw the ball back into my court.

As I was thinking about this, I realized that part of my sense of confusion came from the fact that the black cross-zip biker is such a paradigmatic category, like the cafe racer and A2, and that the permutations within that category can get highly subtle. I know other jacket models work in the same way. But when I got the Aero Hooch Hauler, which was my first high-level leather jacket, I wasn't interested in a paradigm of jacket per se, but was rather just wowed by that particular jacket. I am also wowed by the A2 model and classic black biker cross-zip but have found it somewhat more difficult to appreciate the relevant distinctions. So I could have just as easily started this thread about the A2. I was just reading another thread about how much certain members loved Langlitz so decided to start with the biker to try get some perspective.

I tried to capture a bit of some of the collective wisdom shared in an earlier post, so that can just stand there. But I'd say what I've learned is that I need to a) find a non-bank busting way of getting my hands on more and more jackets to get a more grounded sense of certain practicalities and 2) start trolling through loads of pictures and prior threads to begin differentiating for myself what I find most appealing, using some of the advanced criteria given by Superfluous. And then once I've reached a certain maturity in that process, it may be time to 3) invest in a very high-quality hunk of hide, and to not cut corners for the sake of a few $, but to make sure I get exactly what I'm yearning for.

I don't know if this makes sens, but you don't know what you can't see. And usually you won't see things until they are in your hands.
Back in 2012 i bought my Schott, and to me it was a really well made jacket... As soon as i got my Lewis Leathers not long after, i could see that Schott couldn't compete with the execution of LL, i then got my LaBrea this year and it makes the Schott look like it was made in the dark by a 12 year old.
Still, people will say Schott are well made jackets and find all kind of arguments to prove it. Most of them haven't handled a Freewheelers or a Real McCoy... They don't know how much better than a Schott things could be!
I didn't know that either until both were in my hands, no pictures could have prepared me for the difference in craftsmanship!

Looking at pictures is good, but until you have experienced many jackets first hand you won't fully see what is going on.
You might never even see the differences, for some people both a Schott and a RMC are "black leather jackets" and that's as far as they go.

(not hating on Schott, it is just objectively the worst jacket in my collection as far as craftsmanship goes)

 

[Bigbenbs]

I don't know if this makes sens, but you don't know what you can't see. And usually you won't see things until they are in your hands.
Back in 2012 i bought my Schott, and to me it was a really well made jacket... As soon as i got my Lewis Leathers not long after, i could see that Schott couldn't compete with the execution of LL, i then got my LaBrea this year and it makes the Schott look like it was made in the dark by a 12 year old.
Still, people will say Schott are well made jackets and find all kind of arguments to prove it. Most of them haven't handled a Freewheelers or a Real McCoy... They don't know how much better than a Schott things could be!
I didn't know that either until both were in my hands, no pictures could have prepared me for the difference in craftsmanship!

Looking at pictures is good, but until you have experienced many jackets first hand you won't fully see what is going on.
You might never even see the differences, for some people both a Schott and a RMC are "black leather jackets" and that's as far as they go.

(not hating on Schott, it is just objectively the worst jacket in my collection as far as craftsmanship goes)

You live in Belgium right?

 

[Carlos840]

You live in Belgium right?

Unfortunately not for the moment, i have been in London for years and all my jackets live here.
I am planning my return to Belgium soon though

 

[GHT]

Definitely the Real Mccoys Buco JH-1. It’s crazy expensive but also crazy beautiful.

Well you say it's expensive: I checked out one for sale: £1,595 for one like this:
https://www.superdenim.com/uk/buco-jh-1-horsehide-leather-jacket-brown.html

But if you wre ignorant of leatherware and you fancied a biker leather, you might assume that the more expensive the jacket, the better it must be. Going by that yardstick, Gucci is a well known fashion house, their biker leather comes in at £6,400, and there's only one left.
https://www.brownsfashion.com/uk/sh...MIwPvjn9H23QIVUKmaCh1LIgK2EAQYAiABEgK4XfD_BwE

It just goes to show that all that glitters is not gold. I certainly know which jacket I would choose.

 

[Mich486]

That’s the old batch price for the jh-1. Now it’s £2095. Go figure why such a hike. Still a beautiful jacket.


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[ton312]

Should you pen a "Best A2 for a non-pilot" thread, I'll bring refreshments!

 

[TheMarriedHermit]

Only fair enough to throw the ball back into my court.

As I was thinking about this, I realized that part of my sense of confusion came from the fact that the black cross-zip biker is such a paradigmatic category, like the cafe racer and A2, and that the permutations within that category can get highly subtle. I know other jacket models work in the same way. But when I got the Aero Hooch Hauler, which was my first high-level leather jacket, I wasn't interested in a paradigm of jacket per se, but was rather just wowed by that particular jacket. I am also wowed by the A2 model and classic black biker cross-zip but have found it somewhat more difficult to appreciate the relevant distinctions. So I could have just as easily started this thread about the A2. I was just reading another thread about how much certain members loved Langlitz so decided to start with the biker to try get some perspective.

I tried to capture a bit of some of the collective wisdom shared in an earlier post, so that can just stand there. But I'd say what I've learned is that I need to a) find a non-bank busting way of getting my hands on more and more jackets to get a more grounded sense of certain practicalities and 2) start trolling through loads of pictures and prior threads to begin differentiating for myself what I find most appealing, using some of the advanced criteria given by Superfluous. And then once I've reached a certain maturity in that process, it may be time to 3) invest in a very high-quality hunk of hide, and to not cut corners for the sake of a few $, but to make sure I get exactly what I'm yearning for.

I am fascinated by the idea that every leather jacket is a historical and cultural reference (I'll keep the psychological, mythical, and sexual aspects out of this, although they, too, have their place here); and that one needs to be aware of those references to understand and adapt them to one's personal context for the jacket to be right, to "work". What are the things that come to mind when you hear the words "black leather jacket"? Off the top of my head: motorcycles, rebellion, outlaw bikers, Marlon Brando, Mad Max, the Terminator, the Ramones, Motorhead, rock and roll, punk, heavy metal; and the most frequent one, because most often seen by me these days--paunchy, middle-aged men headed over-the-hill on their La-Z-Boy Harleys. The color itself is a reference. This is not just idle theorizing; your awareness of these things in choosing a particular jacket will make a difference between it being a subtle and natural expression of your personal style, indeed of your personality; or making you look like you're on your way to a costume party; or, perhaps worst of all, that you're a trendy wanna-be with no sartorial sense whatsoever. These considerations are best left for the wearer of the jacket to work out for himself, though, because "individual" is the key word when it comes to choices and decisions. That's my bit of mental lint this morning. Over and out.

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[GHT]

Should you pen a "Best A2 for a non-pilot" thread, I'll bring refreshments!
View attachment 139107

Now there's a thought, the refreshments, not the A2. Leather jackets might be expensive but their mark up for profit is an average of 25% (perhaps with the exception of Gucci) But what’s harder to digest? Movie theatre popcorn has an average markup of 1,275%, and that popcorn has a caloric equivalent of three McDonald’s Quarter Pounders? Nutrition aside, concessions like $5 tubs of popcorn are big revenue streams for movie theaters.

 

[TheMarriedHermit]

Well you say it's expensive: I checked out one for sale: £1,595 for one like this:
https://www.superdenim.com/uk/buco-jh-1-horsehide-leather-jacket-brown.html
View attachment 139098
But if you wre ignorant of leatherware and you fancied a biker leather, you might assume that the more expensive the jacket, the better it must be. Going by that yardstick, Gucci is a well known fashion house, their biker leather comes in at £6,400, and there's only one left.
https://www.brownsfashion.com/uk/sh...MIwPvjn9H23QIVUKmaCh1LIgK2EAQYAiABEgK4XfD_BwE
View attachment 139099
It just goes to show that all that glitters is not gold. I certainly know which jacket I would choose.

That fellow Gucci, he's one of the Village People, right?

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[GHT]

and the most frequent one, because most often seen by me these days--paunchy, middle-aged men headed over-the-hill on their La-Z-Boy Harleys.

Oi!

 

[TheMarriedHermit]

Oi!
View attachment 139111

Not to worry--after that hill there's another one, and another... As long as you have that happy, loving lady by your side; that is all that matters.

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[OneEyeMan]

I can solidly recommend the Vanson Enfield. I'm a 40 and I bought a 38. It fits like a second skin. However, I wear it on the bike and I wanted it to fit snugly. If you're not riding, just buy your correct size. It's gorgeous, thick as hell, simply styled to go with everything and just begs to be worn everywhere. Just be aware it won't work if you're "full" around the belly.

 

[jonesy86]

You might look at this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schott-Per...479405?hash=item33f65ad2ad:g:KcIAAOSwYcBbt4uT

 

[dubpynchon]

I second the Vanson Enfield, I’ve had over a dozen or so high end leather jackets (a very small number I am aware compared to some of the members here) and the Enfield is my favorite, the design is very modern and it seems to fit better than any other jacket I have. The older competition weight ones still pop up on ebay from time to time, it’s worth grabbing one if you can.

This is also the last leather jacket I bought, which might be clouding my opinion a bit. Six months clean, whoop!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Vanson Enfield in comp weight steer.