Berets, Anyone?

[Carlisle Blues]

Really nice beret Hadley. Kinda makes mine look like snoopy. I can see the difference between a quality beret like yours and the cheap one like mine.
Ernest

Your beret is just fine. Whether you upgrade or not is immaterial. Do not be fooled by appearances. It is what's under the beret that counts. I will take a person with a seemingly cheap beret and strength of character because it is the person who makes the hat not the hat that makes the person. I have read where you felt that your pork-pie was cheap as well. Stand tall Big-e wear your hats with pride and welcome to the Fedora Lounge!!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Photographer Ron Greer runs http://home.avvanta.com/~rgphoto/2004/basqueberet.htm, a site in Seattle, WA that specializes in large top-notch berets made in the Tolosa, Spain Boinas Elosegui factory.

Way back on this thread Woodfluter and at least one other Lounger got berets from him and were very satisfied with the whole deal. Since then, Ron's expanded his color range on the 12-inchers to include blue and red along with ye old black, and he even has a few 11 1/2-inch browns.

I now see that he's also carrying a more normally-sized beret--11-inch diameter--which would be the absolute upper limit for my pin head. However, I want a leather-banded one, and all of Ron's are bandless. Further, this 11-incher comes only in black, and I want a red or maybe gray one. Doesn't ANYONE offer a beret that meets my requirements?

Amazingly, this guy is still offering these high-quality lids for only about US $32.00 + a low $4.00 shipping. At those prices, he's barely covering his costs, so I know he's sincere when he says he's doing it for the sheer love of fine berets.

This guy really knows berets, and I'm not far behind, so when we say the best are the top-tier ones made at the Boinas Elosegui factory in Spain, you can take that to the bank. These include the Super Lujo sold through Basque Market, the Jaxson Basque Beret made for Village Hat Shop, and, of course, the ones Ron Greer sells.

Besdor, I will have to disagree with you: These Spanish berets are superior to the top-tier French berets made by BEATEX at the Blancq Olibet factory in Oloron St. Marie. Though in the Bearn region, it's the only other manufacturer of genuine "Basque" berets currently in operation anywhere on the Continent. AND, the Borsalino beret is made there, NOT in Italy.

Ron Greer is a study in contrasts to the Daan dude, above. After he made a few posts here and then would not answer any E-mails via his blog sites, I did a little checking. He's the principal behind South Pacific Berets. He should have registered here as a vendor, or at least disclosed that affiliation.

Remember his assertions that bandless berets are better than banded, that they are truly one-size-fits-all, and his other proclamations about the Argentinian, Uruguayan, and Bolivian berets' being just as good as the authentic Basque product? Well, what a coincidence--everything South Pacific Berets carries is in complete alignment with his opinions. I'm not saying he's disengenuous, but consider the source and take it from there.

 

[Big_e]

Oh yes! I can feel the difference in the wool. My new L'aiglon beret feels a whole lot better made! I bought it from an ebay seller. It doesn't feel as flimsy as far as berets go.
Thanks for the kind words, I just like a good hat when I can get one.
Ernest

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Nice lid Big_e!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Meyer]

Kangol Anglobasque beret

There are many authentic Basque berets, but, caveat emptor, that does not equate to always being good, and there are some decent berets made outside the Basque region, the Kangol Anglo-Basque Beret, with a full lining and a fabric sweatband, being one of them. It's not as good as it was when it was made in England, but it's still above average.

Just lucky today!

Found an old unused UK made Kangol Anglobasque Beret in an old shop, dark brown and as new!! Price £ 13,50.

Looks so nice with my WWII Duffelcoat and my brown striped scarf!

Happy New Year to all !!

-Meyer

 

[Edward]

Just lucky today!

Found an old unused UK made Kangol Anglobasque Beret in an old shop, dark brown and as new!! Price £ 13,50.

Looks so nice with my WWII Duffelcoat and my brown striped scarf!

Happy New Year to all !!

-Meyer

Nice score. Kangol make a great hat... I've never owned one of the beret, but over the years I've hat quite a few of their corduroy fiherman's / yachting caps, very pleased with those. Actually, one of those, in black, was my first regular hat; I wore two of them to death a 'only' hats back in the day (redyed, they'd probably still be wearable, when I think about it). till have a couple. In more recent years, Kangol moved all production to China. I appreciate that ome folk would have an isue with that, but purely in terms of the hats themselves I see no appreciable drop in quality.

 

[Harry Street]

AR 670-1 Wear & Appearance of Army Uniforms

I still wear my Army beret while in uniform. They are not authorized for wear while deployed.

For the sake of completeness I thought it useful to make people aware of AR 670-1, Section 3-5. It is the current Army regulation on how, when, and who wears what type of beret for anyone who is interested.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Surprised that nobody has posted this, from AR 670-1:

Harry the Maroon beret reference was already posted and using a US Army regulation is esoteric. It will be helpful to a select few like myself. Besides this for civvie use anyway. Thanks

BTW Welcome to the Lounge...

 

[Harry Street]

Carlisle:

Point taken, I've edited the post just to provide the reference.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[AlterEgo]

Update

I've been conspicuously absent from this thread for a while because I've been diligently researching the current beret scene. Recall that I'm seeking a top quality authentic Basque wool felt beret, 10- to 10 1/2-inch diameter, with leather band, preferably in red, though I would accept other colors, black being my last place choice. I think you'll find this information useful:

Super Lujo
This is Boinas Elosegui's top-of-their-line beret manufactured in Tolosa, Spain in the factory making them since 1858.

Basque market's site, www.basquemarket.com, is down, nobody answers or returns calls to its phone, 800-766-0409, and I've received no response from numerous E-mails to info@basquemarket.com. So that's a dead end.

www.SouthPacificBerets.com is the site in New Zealand run by the self-serving, never-would-answer-my-messages Daan who previously posted on this thread. He's now out-of-pocket until late Jan. '10, and, in addition to some Argentinian (Bonigor SA), Uruguayan (Fabrica Nationale), Bolivian (manufacturer name unknown) berets, he does carry the Tolosa Tupida and Espinosa models made at the Tolosa, Spain factory. However, ALL his berets are unbanded AND very wide diameter. He offers each model in only one size, too, contending that size does not matter in an unbanded beret, though, curiously, the various models are not all the same size. I pass.

On the other hand, or should I say head, is Ron Greer, a photographer who sells Elosegui berets on the side at http://home.avvanta.com apparently out of the goodness of his heart, based on his rock-bottom prices in the low $30s. However, all his berets are unbanded and range from a very wide 12'' to a sombrero-like 14 1/2! He's unavailable until late Jan. '10. So, I must pass though I really admire this guy.

Berkely Hat Company, www.berkelyhat.com, 510-549-2955, in California near the eponymous campus, carries the Super Lujo in black and navy (though the web site does not mention the latter color being available), in 10 1/2-inch diameter, so I ordered the navy one--$49 + $6.88 S&H--on New Year's Eve and received it really fast on Monday. It is, well, SUPER: Thick, dense wool felt impregnated with Teflon for true water-proofness and overall resilience. The beautiful royal blue satin lining is partial--covering the crown and whip-stitched to it but leaving a space between it and the sweat band for "breathing." The sweat is very robust genuine leather with a shiny black patent treatment and a thin red ribbon running through the center all the way around. The large "Euskal Herria" label is truly regal looking and sewn to the lining.

BUT, my usual size 57 (7 1/8) that I ordered is HUGE!, so big that I could slip three fingers between the sweat and my head and made me wonder if even a 55 would be small enough to fit. They don't currently stock any of these Super Lujos in sizes less than 56, and they only had a 56 in black, so I had to return my navy 57 for a refund. Sniffle, sniffle. Jessica did say she'd keep me informed if and when they get any more navies or other colors in stock in smaller sizes.

I finally got a response this morning to my 12-27-09 E-mail directly to the Tolosa, Spain factory, boinaselosegui@facilnet.es. The English was not so good, but, incredibly, you can order just one beret directly from them! It takes a bank transfer from customers in the USA, and by the time you factor the weak dollar against the Euro and shipping charges, it would be hideously expensive and take a long time to get, but it IS an option I have not completely ruled out. Web site is http://www.boinaselosegui.com.

Jaxon Basque Beret
That same E-mail from Boinas Elosegui said that Village Hat Shop in California, carries its berets here in the USA.

I've seen it's $55.00 Jaxon Basque Beret on the web site, www.villagehatshop.com, or www.berets.com, and thought it was awfully similar to the Super Lujo, and this mesage from the manufacturer confirms that, in fact, it is the same animal. I called VHS at 888-847-4287 and asked my usual 44 questions, and the only difference is that the Jaxon label is smaller and less impressive than the Euskal Herria label, but, like it, is sewn to the partial lining.

Problem solved, right? Nope. The Jaxon's diameter is 12 inches, way too big for me. It is available in four colors, though--black, navy, grey, and brown. The overwhelming consensus among buyers leaving comments was that this beret runs quite large. VHS offers it only in imprecise S, M, L, XL...sizes, so a full size down from your regular size is a huge difference, and some buyers said their regular size was too big while one size down was too small.

After an exhaustive search, these are the only sources I've found for the berets manufactured at the factory in Tolosa, Spain.

Berets Made at the Blancq Olibet Factory in Oloron St. Marie, France by Pierre Lual BEATEX Co.

It's web site is http://www.beatex-laulhere.com. After numerous attempts, I've yet to receive a response to E-mails to contact@beatex.fr. Unlike Boinas Elosegui, the only other maker of authentic Basque region berets, BEATEX makes no berets under its own name, but is best known under the Hoquy brand, but it manufactures berets under many other brands, as well.

http://voyage123.com/realsw/tresors/berets.htm contains some very good information about these French berets, and you can supposedly purchase one one here, but the site appears bush league, and no one's ever responded to to the questions I've left there in the space for them. Here you will learn the extremely wide range of quality produced at the Blancq Olibet factory, the Hoquy Ultimate Beret being the best.

The Hoquy Deluxe is one step down and is widely available in the USA, but it has a vinyl sweat and so is not even a consideration for me. I have a 10-inch camel one at the same quality level from Stark and Legum under the K-Hats brand that I got a couple years ago when I was told the sweat was genuine leather before ordering only to discover it was naugahide upon receipt. How many precious little "naugas" gave their lives for that beret? Sweat notwithstanding, it's still pretty nice, fully lined in a matte black silk with a glued-on medium-size two-color Basque label, and very well constructed. The felt is quite thick yet not particularly tight and dense, so it's very soft and pliable and as water-resistant as any wool felt while far from water-proof. I would not want another at this quality level.

The likes-to-interrupt-and-tell-you-what-you-want Sam at www.mikethe hatter.com, 800-926-5567, in Ohio, carries the Hoquy Ultimate Beret, fully lined, with impressive-looking yet glued-in label (as are all recent Hoquys), leather sweat, in black and navy, sized exactly 56, 57, 58..., but in narrowest-I've-ever-heard-of 9-inch diameter, for $49.90 + 7.95 S&H. Last year when I spoke with Sam, he said it was 10 inches. Though the item number 066 was the same as now, it may have been an inch wider, then again, maybe not. Frankly, my cat knows more about Berets than Sam and also has much better communication skills, so I passed.

I found out more about the www.MensHats.com Basque beret I mentioned in a previous post. Made in France, with a leather sweat, partial lining, and large, impressive glued-in label, it appears to be the Hoquy Ultimate in all but name, so I'm satisfied it's at the same quality level and made at the same factory in Oloron St. Marie. Since it has a 10 1/2-inch diameter and is available in red, I slapped my VISA on New Year's Eve with the $55.00 price and talked them into free shipping. Thought I'd have it by now, but it shouldn't be more than a day or two more. Full report when it arrives.

After a throrough search, these are the only sources I've found for the Hoquy Ultimate and its equivalents manufactured at the Blancq Olibet factory in France.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Thank you for this very thorough report. I'm eager to see what you get from MensHats.

 

[filfoster]

Hooray Beret

I used to despise these. Honestly, I thought they were an invitation to an a-s kicking. Now, I wear them around town in the Winter time when a fedora is too dressed up and a ball cap is too 'slouchy'. They are the perfect 'in between' headwear and warm. I just don't care if someone thinks I am Pepe LePew or a Danny Kaye wannabe. I'm warm and have some modicum of style thing goin' on. So there.

By the way, thank you AlterEgo,for the very detailed post. It was a little like a conversation with my Aunt Kelly, rambling but well worth it in the end. I bought two from the Men's Hats site.

 

[Sam Craig]

not in the army now

I love berets and I have a great old basque one ... it even fits, which is amazing.

I wore it to work one winter and gave up the day I had a couple of people ask me what unit I was with when I was in the Army.

Hat ignorance![huh]

 

[AlterEgo]

Men's Hats Beret Arrives

The Good News

No doubt, this beret is the same in every way but name as the Hoquy Ultimate made in the Oloron St. Marie factory in France. The felt is pure wool, thick but not as dense as the Spanish Elosegui/Jaxon, and much more pliabe than it for easy shaping to your preference. The 13/16-inch-wide sweat is leather and also much more pliable--at least initially--than its Spanish competition and features a red bow at the rear where it is sewn together. Sewn up under the sweat is a small tag indicating the beret is pure wool, rain proof, made in France, and the logos for care.

On my red one, the partial lining (a circle in the crown extending to about 1/4 inch beyond the periphery of the sweat when the beret is laid flat upside down) is black matte silk, whip-stitched to the crown. The label, a large 3 1/2 by 2 3/4 inch and glued to the lining, is 3-color (gold, red, & white on a black matte silk background) and reads, "Basque Authentique" at the top and "Pure Laine/Impermeable/Fabrique En France" at the bottom, with the crest in the middle. I did not wear it in the rain, as everything falling from the sky since I got it is frozen, so I cannot confirm that it is "impermeable," though it appears so according to my flick-tap-water-from-my fingers-at-it test.

Overall, the construction and quality is good. I would grade it a "B" compared to the Elosegui/Jaxon's "A."

[/U]So, What's the Problem?

Recall that Men's Hats' catalogue, web site, and the customer rep on the phone all said that this beret is sized S, M, L, XL, XXL. I even asked her to measure the exact red medium one she'd ship before I purchased it, and she took it to the hat measuring device and said, "It's just a little over 7 1/8." Well, guess what? Printed on the sweat of my "M" is a clear 57! So, this beret IS specific-sized, only Men's Hats just calls a 57 a medium.

A previous poster pointed out that since Men's Hats sells this Genuine Basque Wool Beret sized S, M, L..., it very well might not be so good. That's generally a very good indicator of quality, but in this case, the vendor is simply taking a shortcut by renaming specific sizes into the more general size designation, probably in order to avoid stocking so many sizes.

Bottom line: This M/57 is WAY TOO BIG and will be shipped back today. I'm going to call Men's Hat's later as soon as they open on the West Coast to see what specific size is printed on its so-called small, and based on the hugeness of M, I'll probably get a S.

One final note. "10" is also printed on the sweat. If that means inches across, then it's off a bit as the diameter of mine measures 10 1/2 inches, another important characteristic Men's Hats mentions nowhere and I had to ask.

Yes, I AM picky, but I must say, the last car I bought was less trouble than purchasing a beret!

 

[donnc]

After an exhaustive search, these are the only sources I've found for the berets manufactured at the factory in Tolosa, Spain.

For the record, this web site also appears to offer the Super Lujo, at a reasonable price (I didn't check shipping charges, or where they're shipped from.)

http://www.esflamenco.com/product/en60310549.html

Width is a little ambiguous here, because cited dimensions in metric and English units don't match, but of course they're the wide Spanish Basque style, not French berets. The interesting thing is that width varies with hat size.

 

[Cap Fancier]

Photos and information on Berets from 123voyage

This is my first post to fedoralounge.com, which I discovered while scouring the internet for more information on berets. It's been quite helpful, and I feel obligated to share the knowledge I have that may be of benefit to visitors here.

I own three berets ordered in 2005 and 2006 from:

http://www.123voyage.com/realsw/tresors/berets.htm

(mentioned by AlterEgo, above). Here are two pictures, one showing the label and the other showing the sizing indicators.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46417556@N03/4264983528/

The interior band feels like a stiff plastic, rather than leather.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46417556@N03/4264983766/

I can offer good news and bad news ... and the combination of the two may be frustrating, in this case.

The good news: they're the best berets I own, by a significant margin -- better than my two Fandangos and several Hoquys.

The bad news: you may have to fight to get what you order.

The first beret, ordered in 2005, arrived as expected, with the delay warned about on the website. (After all, it is custom ordered, and coming from France.) The second two berets didn't come as expected, and my three e-mails about this were unanswered and ignored. It was only when I wrote one more e-mail saying that I'd contact the VISA company that I received the second two.

But, those second two were as good as the first.

You're on your own! A fantastic product, but I can hardly recommend a company I had such trouble ordering from.

 

[filfoster]

Son of a Basque

Ok, just got the Basque Authentique Berets, black "noir" and brown "Marron"?, from Men's Hats. These are marked '57'; I ordered the Medium and they fit fine. I don't have many berets, except military ones I've been wearing, with that annoying external tie.

These seem as fine as any I would ever want. Wearing them, I feel like separating: separating for no apparent benefit, from work, my home, other English speakers, in favor of speakers of my own patois that I'll invent. I even feel somewhat at war with myself. My face is starting to wrinkle like Imhotep. I just feel so damn Basque in these!

 

[AlterEgo]

For the record, this web site also appears to offer the Super Lujo, at a reasonable price (I didn't check shipping charges, or where they're shipped from.)

http://www.esflamenco.com/product/en60310549.html

Width is a little ambiguous here, because cited dimensions in metric and English units don't match, but of course they're the wide Spanish Basque style, not French berets. The interesting thing is that width varies with hat size.

Very good, donnc, another Super Lujo source. The price is over $10 cheaper than the least expensive one I've found at VHS, but since it appears to come from Spain, shipping and handling would probably more than eat up the savings.

Actually, it makes sense to expand the diameter of a beret as the head size increases in order for it to have the same comparative appearance on any head. Of course, I myself do not want such a wide beret, so this source does me no personal good, but thanks for the additional source for others.

Cap Fancier--

Interesting photos, my friend! That's the Super Lujo, all right, in "Sancho" form--meaning it has a full as opposed to partial "Bakarra" lining.

The label is two-color, gold and white, as oppose to the fancier-looking three-color one I just returned to VHS because it was way too large, it is sewn differently to the lining (a straight stitch versus the zig-zag), and the sweat has TWO strands of ribbon running through it instead of one.

By the way the sweat IS leather, though it may seem plasticky due to the patent tanning process, assuming yours is like the one I just returned.

Based on my experience with the 123 Voyage people, and now yours, I, too, would not take a chance on doing business with them.

Thanks for the good info.

I still waiting on Mens Hats to call me back to tell me exactly what metric size their size small French-made beret is.

 

[jaymag_87]

I served in the US Army from 1966 to 1980 (The horrible ugly baseball-type cap era) Actually from the tail end of the "Castro" cap days.

After the US Army Special Forces became popularly known as "Green Berets", Rangers, who felt equally special, adopted the black beret and some airborne troops started wearing the maroon (82nd IIRC) and the "Screaming Eagles" 101st (Bi-polar Airborne/Air Assault) adopted dark blue as their distinctive unit headgear. By the early seventies, there was a rash of unauthorized "Special" unit headgear, mostly berets of different colors; red for artillery, light blue for infantry, even orange for signal corps. Some units of air and armored cavalry adopted black Stetson campaign hats reminiscent of the Indian wars era. After about 1977 the Army started cracking down on distinctive unit headgear eliminating most, ultimately giving berets to everyone.

That's the way I remember it anyway.

IMO, the beret is no worse than the overseas cap for dress uniform wear and is preferable to, at least in terms of convenience, the garrison cap. However, I can't imagine how anyone could propose a beret for fatigue duty.

You were in at the same time as my Dad. I still have the black beret he wore at Fort Knox, in the late 70s. FYI...the Cavalry Stetson is still a big player in Cavalry Units. I served in 2d Infantry Division's cavalry squadron, the 1st Cavalry Division and the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. My Cavalry Stetson is one of my most treasured possessions. I got out before Gen Shinseki made the decision to issue everyone berets. I need to get me one. I also need to get the maroon one I qualified for when I graduated Jump School.

Several years ago, I bought an el-cheapo "french" beret from Restoration Hardware, for about $6. 100% wool, unlined, no band. Totally cheap. I've worn it this past cold spell. Not a comment from anyone. If I do say so myself...I make it look good.

 

[Big_e]

Today I wore my L'aiglon beret. I notice a few people wearing berets in the area, maybe I'm starting a trend.
Ernest

PS: I've just ordered a black 12 inch beret from Ron Greer. It should be here in a few days!