Belstaff Trialmaster -- are these authentic?

[shipm_8]

Can anybody please help me determine whether these three jackets are true Belstaff Trialmaster jackets?

1) First time I see this logo and not the Belstaff wreath:

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/trialmaster1/

2) Same for the zipper on the left sleeve, on this second jacket

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/Trialmaster2/

3) ...And the last one. Wondering about the zippered pocket.

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/Trialmaster3/

Thanks!

 

[canarsie]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/belstaff/

Here's a review of that jacket. There aren't any zippers on the left sleeve as far as I can see. Also the left top pocket in the reviewed jacket looks to be offset from the right one. All three of your jackets seem to have a symetrical left pocket. Not sure if this helps or not. Where did you find those jackets? I'm looking for a 48 in one myself, to no avail.

 

[shipm_8]

Belstaff Trialmaster

Thanks for the reply. They were all eBay items. I know there have been variations on the tartan lining, but not sure about the logo and variations on the left breast pocket.

If you are looking for a 48", one just popped up on eBay: item 220124409849

 

[canarsie]

Thanks for the heads up. A little suspect since the jacket has no labels on it at all. Notice the offset left top pocket though.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Can anybody please help me determine whether these three jackets are true Belstaff Trialmaster jackets?

1) First time I see this logo and not the Belstaff wreath:

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/trialmaster1/

Wreath? Belstaff has never used a wreath. It's real enough. That's the original 'bird' logo. Late 60s. Made in Longton. Rare. Valuable.

2) Same for the zipper on the left sleeve, on this second jacket

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/Trialmaster2/

90s production. Wellingborough. Practical jacket, but as for vintage class, let it go.

3) ...And the last one. Wondering about the zippered pocket.

http://homepage.mac.com/shipm8/Trialmaster3/

Even later. Probably Italian. See above comment but more so.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Some early examples...

...of Trialmaster jackets

Early 50s - oldest I have ever seen. Note LH pocket, slight slope, bottom lower than RH pocket.

Here's the lining and label

Here's a mid 60s 'ISDT' model. Note greater LH pocket slope. Bottom higher than RH pocket.

And lining and label (note 'Sammy Miller' logo)

And a 1970s 'revised' model. YKK zip. Upright pockets. Going downhill... (I quit in 1974!)

With lining and label. Note cleaning instructions.

 

[shipm_8]

thanks!

Thanks, Alan. I appreciate the explanation

The first two, I own. The third one I saw on eBay, but it seemed suspect so thought I'd ask.

How do you call the symbol on the buttons and logo?

Which period do you consider the best designed?

Thanks again.

William

 

[Alan Eardley]

William,

A pleasure. Both logos are birds. The 'early bird' (your first image) is quite realistic and representational of an eagle with its wings up and its head down. That's a Tourmaster jacket, by the way, not a Trialmaster.

The later bird (70s onward) is very stylised. Wings up, tail at bottom, head looks like a 'T'. I have never thought of it as a wreath before I saw your posting, but I see what you mean.

The 60s designs are best. The ISDT model with the sloping pocket wins for me every time.

Alan

 

[Aviakid]

ISDT JACKETS

Just spotted this thread and have a couple of questions for Mr Eardley.
Do you know when Belstaff first introduced their wax jackets? -checking all of the motorcycle magazines I have (a hell of a lot), the first advert I can find for a wax jacket in the WW2 Submarine style is 1958, everything before that is for plastic clothing.
ISDT model, this looks pretty similar to the Barbour jackets which Steve McQueen, Bud Ekins et al of the USA team wore in the 1964 ISDT Silver Vase trials race in East Germany (the British team also wore them), was this jacket actually called the ISDT model -or was it a coined term during the 60s?
Nice looking jackets in your collection, the 70s version is clearly longer than the previous two but I'd have thought this may have been more practical, the earlier two certainly have a more classic look about them though. .

 

[jamespibworth@n]

Terribly sorry if this is a bit off topic.

I see Alan mentioned 'Sammy Miller', the great man over took me at Mallory Park last summer on his Gilera!

Hope I can ride a bike like that when I am in my 70s.

Just had to share that with you.

Sorry

James.

 

[cherrypicker]

I always assumed the label on the first jacket was from the mid 60's,the 2nd one 70's.What is the zipper on the second jacket.I know the earlier jackets had lightning zippers similar to the ones found on Irvin jackets.
I have several variations of Belstaff trialmaster including one with velvet lining on the collar instead of corduroy.I have also had different colours of waxed cotton,including green and red.
The jackets in the first post look to be the last generation of Belstaffs produced before the company was bought out and moved to Italy.I have had some similar jackets,with plastic waist buckles,and some of those had the Drizabone label in them.As far as I can make out,Belstaff and Drizabone were connected in some way.

 

[Aviakid]

Early Belstaffs

Hi CP,
Re: the Lightning zippers on your early Belstaff jackets, are they the same shape as the ones commonly found on Irvin jackets but completely flat (instead of curved)? -if so they probably date the jackets to late 50s/early 60s, these zippers can sometimes be seen on UK motorcycle jackets from this period, in my collecting experience (ahem!) they are much rarer than the earlier curved version.

As for Drizabone, I think you may find that these jackets were made under license from Barbour, although its possible that Drizabone may have worked with Belstaff too.

 

[cherrypicker]

The pulls are actually the brass curved type,not the earlier type with the raised ridge running around the edge.
As for the Belstaff/Drizabone,it had the usual Belstaff patches on the outside but a Drizabone label inside.

 

[Alan Eardley]

The first production of items in wax-proofed cotton was in the early 50s - probably 1953 or 1954 but possibly before. It was originally used for groundsheets, rather than clothing. The bulk of motorcycle wear sold at this time was in ironhyde. The old hands told me that there was some doubt about the durability of the wax-proofed clothing, so they didn't mass produce it while they saw how it performed in practice. It seems strange that we regard the Trialsmaster as the height of toughness, in those days it was thought to be flimsy - which compared to the Black Prince I suppose it is.

Wax-proof clothing was certainly being marketing more intensively by 1957 and 58. You have to remember that Belstaff (like many things in the Potteries) was an intensely parochial company. Up until the late-ish 1950s they concentrated on selling stuff locally. You've probably noticed that most of the adverts that feature Belstaff clothing were paid for by the dealers.

I don't know if the 'ISDT model' was called that officially - that was before I joined the company. I suspect it may be nickname. It was, as you point out, a fairly flagrant 'borrow' from Barbour.

Just spotted this thread and have a couple of questions for Mr Eardley.
Do you know when Belstaff first introduced their wax jackets? -checking all of the motorcycle magazines I have (a hell of a lot), the first advert I can find for a wax jacket in the WW2 Submarine style is 1958, everything before that is for plastic clothing.
ISDT model, this looks pretty similar to the Barbour jackets which Steve McQueen, Bud Ekins et al of the USA team wore in the 1964 ISDT Silver Vase trials race in East Germany (the British team also wore them), was this jacket actually called the ISDT model -or was it a coined term during the 60s?
Nice looking jackets in your collection, the 70s version is clearly longer than the previous two but I'd have thought this may have been more practical, the earlier two certainly have a more classic look about them though. .

 

[Alan Eardley]

Drizabone and Belstaff had a two way arrangemement - D to sell B in Australia and B to sell D stuff in Europe. It doesn't seem to hav eworked out in that way - they is some 'cross over'. I think this was the 80s.

Beware of dating a jacket by the zips. Stock control of trimmings was so bad (I know, I did it!) that you could easily have ten years worth in stock. A late jacket can therefore have an early zip, but not the other way around (unless its a replacement). Belstaff started to buy from YKK (it was Walt Sharman's idea!) in 1974, at the beginning of what became know as 'the zip wars' that eventually put Lightning out of business.

The earliest zips I have seen on Belstaff clothing are the 40s pattern curved Lightning style, but I'm sure that the jackets weren't made that early. The stamped 'flat' pattern is found on early TMs.

Alan

Hi CP,
Re: the Lightning zippers on your early Belstaff jackets, are they the same shape as the ones commonly found on Irvin jackets but completely flat (instead of curved)? -if so they probably date the jackets to late 50s/early 60s, these zippers can sometimes be seen on UK motorcycle jackets from this period, in my collecting experience (ahem!) they are much rarer than the earlier curved version.

As for Drizabone, I think you may find that these jackets were made under license from Barbour, although its possible that Drizabone may have worked with Belstaff too.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Thank you James. And now they use the great and highly talented Kate Moss to advertise their wares...

Alan

Terribly sorry if this is a bit off topic.

I see Alan mentioned 'Sammy Miller', the great man over took me at Mallory Park last summer on his Gilera!

Hope I can ride a bike like that when I am in my 70s.

Just had to share that with you.

Sorry

James.

 

[cherrypicker]

Thanks for the information,Alan.
As for the new jackets,I am not really impressed with the quality.Anodised buckles,zippers and press studs,as opposed to the original brass,paper thin cord linings on the collar and stitching that seems to be designed to last until you get the jacket home.All at twice the price of an original.It's a shame,as some of the styling is not bad.I wonder if we will be still discussing the finer points of the new jackets 50 years down the line?

 

[Alan Eardley]

It seems that durability is no longer a prerequisite, marketing hype and product placement in films (see 'I am Legend') rules.

Alan

Thanks for the information,Alan.
As for the new jackets,I am not really impressed with the quality.Anodised buckles,zippers and press studs,as opposed to the original brass,paper thin cord linings on the collar and stitching that seems to be designed to last until you get the jacket home.All at twice the price of an original.It's a shame,as some of the styling is not bad.I wonder if we will be still discussing the finer points of the new jackets 50 years down the line?

 

[GSherrington]

Very old Belstaff Trialmaster

Hi. Can anyone help me date an old Belstaff Trialmaster ? I got it in the mid 70s, and it was very old then. The label is similar to the one on the 50s jacket listed earleir on this thread, but not the same. The zippers, also used to date these, are all marked AERO. This seems odd because people only seem to refer to Lightning or YKK zippers on this thread. I have photos, but can't work out how to paste a photo onto a thread. Doh. Thanks in advance, Graeme

 

[Feraud]

To post photos you upload them to a hosting site like Photobucket or Imageshack. These sites are free. You then paste the image link here.