Being Sold as 1950s Stetson... but... is it?

[Mobile Vulgus]

OK, I am not going to put the link to this ongoing ebay sale because I am very confused about this hat.

It is being sold as a Stetson "Motor" model and the seller says it is from the 1950s.

But, as I've been reading this very forum, I thought the size tag and the hat liner put this hat in the late 60s or even the 70s.

I messaged the seller and let him know I thought it was not from the 50s and he came back like someone ready to throw punches. He insisted it was from the 1950s. Claimed he had a 1950s receipt for it, even.

So, you guys are the experts and I am still learning. Am I wrong. Have I misunderstood the threads on Stetson tags and liners?

If I owe this guy an apology, I'd really like to know. I mean, I had no intentions of trying to sound like an accuser or a jerk. But this guy sure as heck took it that way. But, whether I care about his delicate sensibilities or not, my main concern is discovering if I have misread the posts here on Stetson liners and size tags.

 

[DanielJones]

Well, I could be way off here, but judging from the size tag, the sweatband and logo thereon and especially the liner I would speculate 1970's or later. I think you may be correct MV, he might be a shady seller.

What say you folks?

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

I agree,the hat is not as vintage as the seller states,what is the auction number?
CC

 

[rlk]

Late 70's give or take a few years. Has a crown and brim and is made of felt just like the "Motor"....

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

I just looked at the hat,The black sweat band would be a giveaway to me,the sellers names explain the not so pleasant reply that Mobile received.
(iamacrazy1) http://cgi.ebay.com/Royal-Stetson-H...Men_s_Women_s_Accessories&hash=item33642129d5

CC

 

[Lily Powers]

I saw this listing. Forget the hat - did you see the seller is charging $99.50 to ship???!!!:eeek: The guy even has the nerve to say this about the shipping price: "Shipping: I will ship to the lower 48 states. I will use USPS unless otherwise specified. The shipping fee is the shipping fee - if you don't like it, please don't bid on my item." I think that's excellent advice! Don't bid on it. He has only 3 feedbacks as a seller and all of those occurred within the last 30-days.

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

I saw this listing. Forget the hat - did you see the seller is charging $99.50 to ship???!!!:eeek: The guy even has the nerve to say this about the shipping price: "Shipping: I will ship to the lower 48 states. I will use USPS unless otherwise specified. The shipping fee is the shipping fee - if you don't like it, please don't bid on my item." I think that's excellent advice! Don't bid on it. He has only 3 feedbacks as a seller and all of those occurred within the last 30-days.

Good catch I didn't notice the shipping cost,I was too busy LOL about his/hers user name.
CC

 

[Lily Powers]

Good catch I didn't notice the shipping cost,I was too busy LOL about his/hers user name.
CC

The name is indeed appropriate! Although if anyone paid that shipping fee, I think there would a new contender for that name.

 

[alanfgag]

The "Motor" designation caught my eye - it was listed shortly after I purchased Dinerman's depression era hat. Not sure if Stetson made that model in the 70s-80s, which seems to be the vintage of this hat, but it's nowhere in his photos and I'm pretty sure the Stetson ad is lifted from Dinerman's auction. I would steer wide around this seller.

 

[barrowjh]

Definitely NOT as vintage as advertized; in fact, when I see a black sweat band and that liner, I tend to just move on. However, that hat looks nice, and if the brim width was ok, might consider it for 'the right price.' The shipping costs are of course unreal, so that would also cause me to move on.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Well, with this jerk, the hits just keep coming. His latest reply to me was one of the most cretinous I've ever received from an ebay seller. I have reported him as a liar and a thief to ebay. It's up to them to take action now.

But since someone else posted the jerk's ebay listing (I did not post his auction link because I did not want to be accused here of attacking this guy personally), I think you guys will really enjoy this creep's correspondence.

Here was my first email to him:

Just for your info, that liner and the size tag of the Stetson puts that hat having been made in the 1970s. Definitely not the 1950s. Do you have any more shots of the sweatband? Is there more writing on it than what you've showed?

Now, I thought it was even tempered and not accusatory. Here is how he replied to my request for a few more photos of the item:

If you bid on it, I'll show you. In the meantime, you should do more research and more homework. I have owned more than 100 of these hats - all pre 1960's. My cousins are all hat-o-philes and they own 60's and younger. I come from a family of hat collectors, do you?

I have the original hat box and receipt to this hat.

Happy bidding! And I hope you win!

- iamacrazy1

Sheese. What an ass.

This time I did not try to be as diplomatic.

Believe what you want. But according to collectors I trust, that size tag in your photos came in no earlier than the 1960s. And the checkerboard liner did as well. So, nope. Not 1950s. Be as deluded as you want... oh, and try being a bit better at customer relations. The tone of your message makes of you quite a jerk. I'll not be bidding on a hat being sold incorrectly. Bye, bye.

And now he really loses his tiny, criminal mind (This is actually pretty funny with how much of a jerk this guy is):

Yo kernel Douffe,

I've met many serious hat collectors and YOU are a one serious joke if you believe that you are!

Serious hat collectors are usually 99% gentlemen. Respect begets respect, respect is earned and I reciprocate accordingly. OBVIOUSLY, you have the education of a moron, oh yeah, that's right, most morons are respectful; it is an insult to them that I even compare your etiquette to a moron's. And, I respect most morons I speak to because they've give me respect accordingly.

You, however, have not earned my respect nor my ear.

I liken you to a rabid dog who runs from the mouth without the proper manners nor tactfulness. Rabid dogs are executed and euthanized, but that is too kind for you- it is a lonely existence for a person to only be great in one's mind, SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD LITTLE-MINDED PERSON, I see also you like to play a little violin.

GAWKERS are not buyers!!!@)&&$#@^%&^$#%&^$@^*!!!

GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD RIDDANCE, Kernel Gawker!

Also, YOU should stop using your screen name, you are insulting US REAL SERVICEMEN! SHAME ON YOU FOR USING SUCH NOMENCLATURE!!!!!!

I am a semi-retired USAF Lt. Col. and a USMA grad
from the Special Forces with 8 tours under my belt
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO MESS WITH ME AND MY COMMUNITY OF EX-PAT BLACKHAWK PILOTS AND CORPS OF DEMOLITIONS ENGINEERS AND COHORT ARMY RANGERS?!!!!

Run your mouth once more and you'll truly find out! PSSSSSSSSSSTTT*&^%$@!#%^&**&%$#@!!!! BTW, I had my 3-letter friends do some bonefile digging, NOW, I know where you live!...

Vaffancullo, idiota, avere una vita!

IF you want GOOD customer service, go to McDonald'S!!!!!Oh yeah, and that's why Mickey D's employees spit on YOUR burgers. Don't you wonder why your burgers always taste funny?

Ciao, BRUTO, IMBACCILLE!

Wow, just wow. This guy is unhinged.

Hope you enjoyed that one, guys. And I also hope that every Lounger stays away from this distempered liar.

 

[Neophyte]

Wow, MV! Threats and ignorance abound from this "crazy1." Dealing with Ebay sellers sure is like an adventure for you, isn't it lol. I kinda want to send him a message similar to your first one just to encite his wrath for the fun of it, but this guy seems dangerously unhinged.

lol "If you want GOOD customer service, go to McDonald's (because you sure won't find it here)" lol

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

LOL. Yeah, this guy is WAAAY out there, isn't he? I can only laugh at his pretensions to being a "hat guy" from a family of "hat guys," too. This guy is a prime, no. 1 liar.

At least he makes for entertaining reading.

 

[monbla256]

Just another example of why I DON'T go on e-prey anymore. To much BS all the way around. My time and money are worth more to me

Onward thru the Fog

 

[rmrdaddy]

It's a shame about this particular seller. We hat-o-holics go looking for vintage prizes, we can't help it. We pounce on them and then drag the carcasses home, photograph them and show them to other afflicted individuals. We often pay high prices for particularly nice examples, rarities, etc... mostly oubidding each other in the process. Then, we have predatory schmuck sellers offer up mediocre or modern day hats and think that since they saw something "similar"(it was a brown hat, they are all the same, right??) sell for $150 last week, that they too have a hat of that value.

To MV,
The only advice I would give you is, don't bother trying to give advice to sellers. Questions for more information or photos, sure. But, just ask the questions, don't offer anything additional, then make your decision to bid or pass. As you found out quite nastily, this guy is a nut job of epic proportions who also thinks he's a hat expert. You challenged him on his info, rather than simply asking this community and getting the straight dope. Trying to get everyone on e-bay to write accurate descriptions is never going to happen....

 

[HeyMoe]

"I am a semi-retired USAF Lt. Col. and a USMA grad
from the Special Forces with 8 tours under my belt
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO MESS WITH ME AND MY COMMUNITY OF EX-PAT BLACKHAWK PILOTS AND CORPS OF DEMOLITIONS ENGINEERS AND COHORT ARMY RANGERS?!!!!"

Actually I would be happy to mess with this joke. I am a honorary member of the Special Forces Association and am honored to know more than my fair share of Special Forces Operators - both Vietnam Era and the entire cadre of the JFK Special Warfare Center's Phase III (Robin Sage). I would love to know this guy's real name and pass it on to those that take great pleasure in exposing dirt bags like this. My bet is he was booted as an Airman First Class whom spent his entire one and a half year Air National Guard career on KP and was unable to meet the weight and height requirements.

Change that...if he was on KP he would know what a kernel is vs a colonel.

Alternately he has been watching too many episodes of "Army Wives" and "The Unit" with a little "Jack Bauer" thrown in.

Sorry for the rant, I get really irked when people use their obviously fictional military career in an effort to generate respect, or in this case intimidation.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

I agree with you, HeyMoe. I know many vets and some of them in higher ranks and in Spec. Forces. They don't go around bragging about their service and rank. It just isn't done if you are a REAL serviceman. The guy is a flat out, unhinged, liar.

 

[T Rick]

Well, with this jerk, the hits just keep coming. His latest reply to me was one of the most cretinous I've ever received from an ebay seller. I have reported him as a liar and a thief to ebay. It's up to them to take action now.

But since someone else posted the jerk's ebay listing (I did not post his auction link because I did not want to be accused here of attacking this guy personally), I think you guys will really enjoy this creep's correspondence.

Here was my first email to him:


Now, I thought it was even tempered and not accusatory. Here is how he replied to my request for a few more photos of the item:



Sheese. What an ass.

This time I did not try to be as diplomatic.



And now he really loses his tiny, criminal mind (This is actually pretty funny with how much of a jerk this guy is):



Wow, just wow. This guy is unhinged.

Hope you enjoyed that one, guys. And I also hope that every Lounger stays away from this distempered liar.

He a Scammer, pure and simple. Note he doesn't even show a pic of the outside of the hat, only a pic of a Sales ad from the '50's! Some unfortunately may be fooled by such, but if they are, they're not doing their homework properly, a prerequisite for surviving the eBay "jungle" (which can be quite pleasant and fruitful if you know and play the game correctly).

I do hope you reported the abusive message to eBay (never give a Seller your email addy, eBay's position is if it didn't happen through "my messages" on their system-which they can read for verification- then it didn't happen). This guy's obviously a piece of... okay, we'll say work. And his "military record" is obviously as bogus as this hat ad. What a sad, pathetic individual. One way or the other, he won't last long on eBay.

 

[Lily Powers]

Change that...if he was on KP he would know what a kernel is vs a colonel.

Ok, that line was spit-out-my-coffee funny! For more grins and giggles, take a look at his feedback and click on the photos of his previously purchased goods and his 3 previously sold goods. I don't think he'd know a vintage hat if it came up and hit him in the face. Of course, he's "Special Forces," so he'd be able to duke it out accordingly. Amusing that his "hat-o-phile" cousins "own 60's and younger" hats. Technically, that would indeed make this a 1970's hat.

Steering clear of him is the best advice. Hopefully he doesn't own a luger and have plans to attend political gatherings.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Hopefully he doesn't own a luger and have plans to attend political gatherings.

The closest he's ever come to a "luger" is a loogie!