BEAVER FUR

[jeff]

My wife is into spinning yarn, and she says that Angora rabbits are sheered, not killed, for their fur.

What wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angora_wool

Hmm... looks like they molt, so maybe it's not sheered. Still, you have a live rabbit afterwards

 

[HATCO]

You know, I got to wondering last night about different fur bearing animals that could be used for hats and I kinda started to feel like Montey Burns when he wanted to kill those pups for a coat.

If rabbit fur is used, why not Chinchilla as prev. stated? Chinchilla fur seems much softer to me. And I realize Beaver is expensive but we farm everything else out there, why not set up Beaver farms?

Coyotes, foxes and wolves? Mink? Weasels (stoats, in particular were quite popular back when)?

I can tell you for a fact that coyotes in Iowa are considered a pest. I could go out during Coyote season and shoot as many as I like, turn them in and get $1 a head. Why not use their fur for hats (at least in some sort of mixture, in place of wool)?

All I can say is that certain furs felt very well, and others don't. I know that we are always looking for new furs to felt and have tried many different kinds. It really boils down to making it cost effective and worthwhile within the manufacturing process. I've heard one guy say that cat fur would probably felt well, but as you can imagine having a felt hat made of cat hair is most assuredly taboo.

We have made chinchilla hats, they are extremely expensive.

 

[Undertow]

All I can say is that certain furs felt very well, and others don't. I know that we are always looking for new furs to felt and have tried many different kinds. It really boils down to making it cost effective and worthwhile within the manufacturing process. I've heard one guy say that cat fur would probably felt well, but as you can imagine having a felt hat made of cat hair is most assuredly taboo.

We have made chinchilla hats, they are extremely expensive.

Two things:

1. I looked around on google and couldn't really find much in the way of Chinchilla hats. I saw some winter beanie style ones, but nothing in the way of cowboys or fedoras. Could you post pitcures/give descriptions of those hats?

2. I realize this might be asking alot, but for posterity's sake, could you give us some anectdotal history of some of the felts used and rejected by hatco? Like the trials and tribulations using wolf fur felt, etc?

Thanks!

 

[HATCO]

Two things:

1. I looked around on google and couldn't really find much in the way of Chinchilla hats. I saw some winter beanie style ones, but nothing in the way of cowboys or fedoras. Could you post pitcures/give descriptions of those hats?

2. I realize this might be asking alot, but for posterity's sake, could you give us some anectdotal history of some of the felts used and rejected by hatco? Like the trials and tribulations using wolf fur felt, etc?

Thanks!

The chinchilla hats are all western. I will get some pictures.

I will see about the anecdotal history of different felts. I don't know how much success I'll have with that just to be upfront. Using other animal fur when making a hat is really to try and imbue that item with the essence of that animal. I imagine a hat made with wolf would be marketed as a hunting / gun club hat....

 

[LEUII]

It's been explained to me that furfelt hats are made from the undercoat also known as guard hair. Guard hair is a finer hair/fur that felts much better than an animals upper fur coat.

Actually, the guard hairs are the long hairs you see on the surface. The fur used for felt is the underfur. It is much finer, shorter, and softer. Think of a Chessie, Lab, or any water dog. The hair you pet with your hand is the guard hair. The fine, soft, insulating hair underneath is the underfur.

At least those terms are that we used in the trapping business.

 

[Undertow]

The chinchilla hats are all western. I will get some pictures.

I will see about the anecdotal history of different felts. I don't know how much success I'll have with that just to be upfront. Using other animal fur when making a hat is really to try and imbue that item with the essence of that animal. I imagine a hat made with wolf would be marketed as a hunting / gun club hat....

Just wondering if there's been any word as of late.

I doubt some of the secrets will ever make the light of day...but it's worth asking.

 

[Michaelson]

That's really interesting, JT. Some time ago I posted a thread on COW asking why beaver fur in particular was favoured for felt hats, and unfortunately it disappeared under a pile of jokes and daft comments, but at its heart was a genuine question which went unanswered. That question is: What properties of beaver fur make it so suited to felt hats?

Yeah, I remember reading that string after I was offline for a while. I found it tonight, and am sorry my reply did not meet your needs, fatwoul.

Here it is for everyone else's read, directly FROM your thread at COW.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, the availability of rabbit fur has ALWAYS been high, as rabbits breed like, well, rabbits! It's plentiful, easy to work with, and available anywhere in the world. A natural, cheap, easily obtainable fur for hat production.

Beaver has always been reknown for it's duribility, water resistance, and levels of 'style' that can be achieved during pouncing, as some hats can be left with the fur long (top hats of the Victorian era were made this way, as the longish haired felt was quite popular with the upper gentry), and the more you pounced it, the smoother the surface became.

It was also quite easily obtained as though beaver don't breed as quickly as rabbits, they DO breed quickly. They were also considered (still are, by the way) considered vermin (as has been pointed out, flat tailed rats! ) and continue to block water ways and natural flowing streams. Harvesting wild beaver took care of two needs at the time....clean, clear flowing water to communities, and beaver hats.

Beaver felt is now obtained from farm raised animals, as are rabbits (with the exception of rabbit fur hats made by Akubra, that uses the fur of Australian jack rabbits, which is a coarser fur, and more suited for an outdoors type use hat. That's why the Akubras are tough as nails).

I'm not sure this gave you any definitive answer, but it's how I've always understood the choices made by hatters in history to the standard use of rabbit and beaver fur for hats.

Regards! Michaelson :unquote

To add, it was also mainly decided based on the coarse nature OF the fur that determined how it could be used. Too coarse (such as racoon, etc.), it would be a very rough material when felted, and extremely loose when felted into a useable cone.

Anyway, sorry you walked away from that thread, as it wasn't removed at all. I found it, and several replies in that mess that WOULD have at least attempted to answer your question.

I have also found it interesting that many people DO use shed dog hair to make yarn for sweaters, and sell them for quite a bit of money. Thing is, not many folks want to bother gathering the amount of hair to felt, as it will take a LOT of hair, let alone deal with the cleaning that is required before the felting can take place. JMO on that, though.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Michaelson, Thank-you for the very informative post. I especially liked the bit of info about Australian jack rabbits. They have become (along with horney toads) nearly extinct, here in Texas.

 

[fatwoul]

Hello Michaelson. Yeah, I did give up on the thread, but to be honest I've mostly given up on the whole of COW for similar reasons.

Anyway, thanks for reposting your reply here. I have a friend who felts little animals, and that process can also use dog hair. In fact, the idea is that you include hair from your dog to give the little copies of your pet the same colouration.

 

[Will]

I'm just curious as to why an animal from America would be used to make the felt for hats that were being sold in huge numbers in Europe. Afterall, none of these animals were protected when fur felt was first developed, so felters would have been free to use any animal they liked.

Why did English felters never use otter in the same way. Or maybe they did.

SIAP. Beaver was trapped out in Europe all the way to the Urals first, then North American furs took over the market.

There were never enough otters but seal was popular for a while.

 

[fatwoul]

Thanks Will.

BTW what does SIAP stand for?

 

[Spellflower]

...I kinda started to feel like Montey Burns when he wanted to kill those pups for a coat.

For the record, that Simpsons plot line, in which Mr. Burns plots to make a coat out of puppy fur, was a parody of 101 Dalmations. Let's give credit to the original puppy purloiner, Cruella DeVille.

why not set up Beaver farms?

There seems to be strong opinion that part of Akubra's success is owed to its use of wild hares, and I can't help but think that wild beaver would provide a higher quality fur in the same way. Wild animals tend to be significantly different from captive ones. Take fish, for example. There's just no comparison between farmed and wild salmon. And that's to say nothing of the moral issues. Personally, I'm okay with wearing a hat made from a wild animal, but less okay with raising animals just for fur. Partially because animals raised for fur have historically been treated as though they were already dead, and partially because I just like the idea of a free animal happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, rather than doomed since birth.

As for platypus felt, they are actually quite small animals- smaller than a jack rabbit, so it would take an awful lot of them to make a hat. I'd just as soon stick with beaver and hare.

 

[fatwoul]

If all this genetic jiggery-pokery goes anywhere, one day we might have the option of mammoth fur felt. Now that would be a felt guaranteed to be good in the toughest of conditions. Like an iceage, for example. lol

 

[GA Wildlifer]

Wild beaver

I have never heard of farm raised beaver. That would be interesting. There is still an active market for wild beaver pelts.

Here is a quote I got from http://www.furs.com/faq.html when I tried to find some information on beaver farming on google.

Q - Which furs are farm-raised and which come from the wild?
A - The vast majority of fur coats sold today come from animals raised on farms. In the United States, the figure is about eighty percent. Those coats are made of fox or mink -- by far the best-selling fur. In addition, chinchilla, fitch, finnraccoon and nutria are raised in smaller numbers. The most popular wild animals used for fur coats are beaver, raccoon, muskrat, coyote, fox, nutria, lynx, fisher and even some mink.


Robert

 

[patterson]

Some time ago I posted a thread on COW asking why beaver fur in particular was favoured for felt hats, and unfortunately it disappeared under a pile of jokes and daft comments, but at its heart was a genuine question which went unanswered.

Ouch! As a staff member at COW, I pulled this out of our collective backs and thought you might like it back... Unfortunately, adolescent posts occur on many sites - I take your ramark as a slam on COW and it's staff. The FL has had more than it's share of similar incidents. I personally applaud the efforts of those moderators - especially with some of the sophomoric behavior I've seen under the OB. Hemmingway Jones has earned more purple hearts policing that area than I can count. My point is that I think you could have made yours without the disparaging remark against COW... IMHO...

 

[fatwoul]

lol

 

[deanglen]

I'd like to thank Patterson and Fatwoul for their civility befitting Loungers. Good for you guys. That's what keeps this place unique.:eusa_clap

dean

 

[Will]

Thanks Will.

BTW what does SIAP stand for?

Sorry if already posted.

 

[patterson]

I'd like to thank Patterson and Fatwoul for their civility befitting Loungers. Good for you guys. That's what keeps this place unique.:eusa_clap

dean

Oh, we were breaking chairs over each other's heads in the back room... Wait - is this mike on? Oooops...:eusa_doh:

 

[deanglen]

Oh, we were breaking chairs over each other's heads in the back room... Wait - is this mike on? Oooops...:eusa_doh:

I'm out the Lounge a few days and you guys...lol

dean