Beaver felt?

[humblestumble]

First, there aren't green field of grass and trees with heards of beavers running around waiting to be sheared in the spring.

Sheared beaver is just a beaver pelt that's has the fur sheared off. The animal is still killed. A beaver is a basically a big rat. No one is going to hold a rat between their legs and start shearing it.

As to taking a moral route, I'm sorry if that came across. I didn't mean it. Humble asked the question of "where do hats come from..."

Sure I could say the hat fairy brings them in the night, or I tell her people kill beavers and press the hair into cool hats.

Rabbits are the same. Except of Angora. They actually are sheared. And can live to tell the tale...

Yea, I wouldn't have liked to hear of falsehoods. But I also thought about it being the pelt just sheared. It happens and now I know, thank you I see what you mean about the rat family thing. They might try to gnaw an arm off

I know about the Angora rabbits I Would love to knit with some of that yarn! I hear it's incredibly soft. I was actually thinking of getting an angora bunny yesterday.

Thanks for the info about hats, John. Nice to know

 

[shamus]

I grew up on a sheep farm and know a little bit about shearing. I also grew up learning how to spin the wool and weave it.

You should get a angora bunny. You could just use sissors, but it would take quite a while with just one bunny to make anything. Not sure Angora's make the best house rabbit, but why not give it a try.

 

[humblestumble]

I grew up on a sheep farm and know a little bit about shearing. I also grew up learning how to spin the wool and weave it.

You should get a angora bunny. You could just use sissors, but it would take quite a while with just one bunny to make anything. Not sure Angora's make the best house rabbit, but why not give it a try.

That sounds so neat! What a unique experience And that's true about the bunny...It would take a while. I don't know. I think my dad would kill ME if I got a bunny. He once had a sunburn and a rabbit was loose and jumped on his chest and did the back feet kicking thing...know what I mean? He's hated them ever since.

But I may get one in the future.

LOL I could always use my cats...They're soft.

 

[John in Covina]

I understand your point as i don't care to see animals get hurt or worse either. But I also understand that there is a use for things too. Sometimes you can balance it other times not.

Also i hope you understand that things we say carry a lot of weight behind them and some statement can come off not simply as a statement but as a challange. Somethings push my buttons and I can get "polarized" and tend to give of static then.

It is funny in a way because people here have a reverence for beaver felt and we know if mismanaged beavers would disappear. In actually they are coming back and for some people have gone beyond the level of nusiance, causing property damage and devaluation of realty due to their increadable proclivity for daming steams and making ponds.

The same things are happening with the growth of the population of sea otters. Hmmm Sea otter felt?

 

[shamus]

I know what you mean. Didn't mean to push any buttons.

As to Beavers, I love the hats... Gotta love the hats...

But I hate the process of getting the beaver fur. If they feed the beavers to starving kids then, Okay... But for me, and this is only me. I don't like killing something just for one thing. A cow is killed but pretty much every part of that cow is used. A fox, beaver, badger... most fur animals are killed only for their fur.

I'm not throwing paint on anyone, I like fur. I like leather, I like steak.

But unless you've actually seen the process, you can't fully understand the whole process.

and with that I'll stop.

 

[humblestumble]

Thanks guys. I'm glad to have this cleared up. I surely didn't mean that I was superior to anyone. Was just an opinion, as I'm happy for every person to have and hold their own opinions (actually, it urks me when people don't have their own reasons for believing how they do)

I also like leather, ( and like pleather) and with my experience, I definitely know that cows will continually be killed unless there's a world boycott. I've been there. Even when cows rampaged out of the plant - SCARY. As shamus said, at least they are used for everything. I don't like beef, but that's really just a taste preference. I grew up eating chickens and turkey

...as an aside... I just deboned a turkey and it was so disgusting to me, but I have a strong stomach... I just cringed at the sound of the fork hitting the bone. Something about it...bleh.

Beavers are a nuisance at times...and so are kangaroos sometimes, but we do need them, and I know that if there's overpopulation, something has to be done. (The world is becoming that way with humans, but what are we going to do about that?...rhetorical question really...ack. Whole other topic here.)

And another thing for me, like you've said before, is that I do always hope that some being hasn't suffered, but there's a reason for everything...and that's a whole other story.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

If God didn't want us to wear beaver...

...why'd he make their fur so nice. Just right for a hat.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Beavers are a nuisance at times...and so are kangaroos sometimes, but we do need them, and I know that if there's overpopulation, something has to be done. (The world is becoming that way with humans, but what are we going to do about that?...rhetorical question really...ack. Whole other topic here.)
.

Some of the strongest leather in the world comes from a 'Roo. Makes great whips.

Fur bearing animals only have one purpose. I guess one could eat the meat of a fox. Probably tastes like cat. Beaver? Most likely tastes like muskrat.

 

[Section10]

I've trapped plenty of beaver and for whatever small consolation it may be, I'd say at least 95% of beavers caught drown almost immediately. A beaver's first instinct when caught is to make for deep water. It's rigged so he can do so but then cannot get back and he seldom struggles. This is more humane and it assures that he will not be able to eventually escape. Trapping is a source of some suffering, but before long, even on land, the animal's foot goes numb and all feeling is gone. If we're going to kill animals for human use, I see animals being kept in a factory farm setup as less humane than trapping.

 

[feltfan]

Wear a Panama...

...that way you know only humans have suffered (from low wages).

Seriously, though...

Hats are not just an adornment. We do wear them
to keep warm and to keep the sun from our
skin and our eyes (we don't all live in Southern Texas where,
I would bet, it still gets cold some nights and sunny some
days). Like a nice sweater or a stylish jacket, as long as
you're gonna use a hat to stay warm, why not wear one
that looks nice?

Many of us wear almost exclusively vintage hats.
By preserving old fur hats we decrease the demand for
new fur hats and therefore decrease the need to kill
lil animals. Not that I have personally thought much about
that or figure that in my pursuit of vintage hats, but it is true.
It's a bit silly to fret about wearing hats
made from beavers or hares that died 50-100 years ago.
Just another reason to prefer vintage hats...

 

[Section10]

I have eaten beaver meat a few times, but I'm not a big fan of it. It seems to be a little stronger than muskrat. Being a wild animal, it tends toward gaminess you might say. Only younger ones are used for food and the back saddle is best. Sometimes even the tail is eaten. If they're cooked by someone who knows what he's doing they're not bad. I have recipes if anyone's interested. There's really no market for carcasses, but I have seen them go to mink farms and dog kennels. I've never heard of fox being eaten, but I understand bobcats are quite good. Never tried them either, though.

 

[minus_273]

well dang...I wouldnt want anyone to kill a creature for me to have an adornment on my head.

almost everything we use comes from animal products even things you dont know about Toothpaste, gel caps are two good examples. We eat meat, wear leather use leather products etc. Fur is something similar. I can see your point about it not being necessary anymore and from a purely practical standpoint, there probably is an artificial felt that would work. I think many people here will tell you why wool is not good.

There is also the matter of tradition. Using beaver fur felts is now a craft that is steeped in history. Eliminating the central material used in the production of the hat would probably significantly alter the craft and with that the history associated with it. I think many people here are very deep sense of appreciation for history and a desire to keep a tradition alive.

I myself only started wearing hats a day ago (no kidding) and personally speaking if artificial material can make a hat just as good, i have no objections. I would just consider it a modern technique applied to an old craft.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Man made material is inferior to God made material...

I wouldn't wear a synthetic hat.

I wear hats and caps as a matter of course. First priority is protection. Second priority is style. I reckon you could call both of those priorities vanity if you wanted.

Ecc 1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit.

 

[The Wingnut]

Arguably, everything is 'natural', it just depends on how much man has processed it. We apply the label 'natural' to items / material that haven't been processed to an extent that we can't recognize their original form anymore. Conversely, 'synthetic' is applied to something that's been produced or processed from a material or to an extent that we can't recognize the source or is based on a method / resouce that is other than the traditionally accepted method / resource.

When it comes to most hand-crafted items, it's commonly accepted that tradition be followed over technology...regardless of process or resource used, someone's going to have issues or opinions of how it's being done.

 

[Fedora]

well actually most trapped animals do suffer quite a bit.

Yeah, most do, but generally beaver traps have to be set so as to drown the animal once the traps springs. Otherwise, they will gnaw the leg off. I trapped when I was growing up and sold the furs. Fedora

 

[humblestumble]

This has really turned into a very informative thread. Thanks for all the info

I figured that byproducts are used everywhere. After all, makeup used to be comprised from whale blubber. But I'm not a vegan, as stated before, so I'm not radical about it. That's a little too paranoid for me.

I wear "synthetic hats" but that's because I sew and I make my own. I think that when I start to wear fedoras, I will probably just knit my own since I do have a pattern for it, and I can felt it myself. I think that will be more satisfying to me. And while I'm at it, I'll knit a glendarry and a cowboy hat.

Here's me and an example of a hat I just made:

But it IS nice to finally know how it is done. For a long time I've wondered that. I was in "Bugsy Malone" the play, and people would wear fedoras and I wondered how they were made then, and out of what. And since I sew now, I wondered more often. And even more so after I found out about millinery.

 

[Kilgour Trout]

Trappers too?

Wow..Section10 and Fedora, I had no Idea there might be some trappers on board. I'm honestly glad about this for a number of reasons. Living up in Northern Canada, Trapping is common place and a part of our heritage. There is a link to the land and a respect of what comes from it. Beaver is plentiful (to say the least) and it actually supports a number of aboriginal and non-aboriginal cottage businesses. Perhaps its for this reason that there is real respect and interest in preserving our environment and resources "And" in seeing a useful product made from our stewardship.

Perhaps you'd agree that too often our culture is removed from the realities of where our sustenence and survival come from. Hats are but one part of this. (If you don't know what I mean, get the movie "Snowwalker", I can actually look out my window at work and see the plane they used in the movie). It presents the hard but noble facts of life that really keep us alive.

When one is part of the trapping or hunting process it "by nature" prevents rampant consumerism. When we realize everything we have comes at a price, it encourages responsibility and greater respect. Take in point, if we all had to hunt for our meat, we'd sure be concerned with maintaining populations. That's why its often hunting and trapping organizations that do the most for preserving wilderness and species populations.

My purpose in saying all this is that, "Other than being really impressed that there are some here with trapping backgrounds", That Trappers (like the one I had breakfast with yesterday) are equally impressed when I show them a Beaver based product. They see that their harvest is being used well. Hats up here are not just for vanity but to keep one warm. Whether it be, Fur hats or felt hats keeping the heat in (especially for guys like me who are follically challenged) it really makes a difference.

Just my two cents.
Kilgour Trout

P.s. Hey humble...Gotta love that look! lol...
If you made it in tartan I'd been keen...
Warm Regards
Kilgour

 

[humblestumble]

Perhaps you'd agree that too often our culture is removed from the realities of where our sustenence and survival come from. Hats are but one part of this. (If you don't know what I mean, get the movie "Snowwalker", I can actually look out my window at work and see the plane they used in the movie). It presents the hard but noble facts of life that really keep us alive.

When one is part of the trapping or hunting process it "by nature" prevents rampant consumerism. When we realize everything we have comes at a price, it encourages responsibility and greater respect. Take in point, if we all had to hunt for our meat, we'd sure be concerned with maintaining populations. That's why its often hunting and trapping organizations that do the most for preserving wilderness and species populations.

Just my two cents.
Kilgour Trout

Thanks for this. It helps put things into perspective

lol yea...I was making a funny face then