BBC: Ban The Bulldog or No Crufts on TV!

[just_me]

I have never owned a pedigree dog (or cat for that matter). Like Paisley, I always find them in the street or adopt from a shelter. That being said, my favorite breed, since I was a child, has always been the German Shepard dog. Have you seen what they've done to that breed? The hind ends are so low to the ground, I don't know how they walk. I thought it was disgusting when I watched the Westminster (or the other one on Animal Planet) and the top GSD looked like he was dragging his butt on the ground.

 

[B. F. Socaspi]

I fully agree with them. Bastardizing thousands of animals solely in pursuit of aesthetics is ethically corrupt. We breed outside of our immediate family for a reason.

 

[scotrace]

I have always had bulldogs, have several books about the breed dating back into the 1800's, have written a short history. Some 19th century examples look much as some examples today. Others don't. It's not possible to generalize.
There are "overbred" bulldogs, poodles, beagles and whippets. Properly bred for the characteristics they are supposed to have, while striving for good health, is what a responsible breeder of any breed does. For the BBC to single out specific breeds and declare all examples unfit seems like a marketing move more than anything. Is there a serious problem with irresponsible breeding in the UK? Surely there are more effective (and serious) ways to go about a remedy?

Speaking just of the breed I know, they aren't supposed to have trouble breathing, walking, or running full out for that matter. If they do, they aren't proper examples.

 

[LordBest]

Thank god we won't have to put up with this garbage non-programme on the TV every bloody year from now on. What a joke. Hopefully they'll also cancel Trooping of the Colour and the Edinburgh Tattoo, and all the other anachronisms.

bk

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm(I think it is?), or should we just surrender to cultual homogeneity and be done with it?

Persian cats can have a similar respiratory problem which good breeders try and avoid, and I do not see anyone campaigning for the end of persian cat breeders. Arguing for the elimination of an entire btrrf just because a few unscrupulous breeders do not play by the rules is rather over the top. I say this as someone who has never owned any kind of dog and has no vested interest in the debate.
The parallels with eugenics are intriguing, given that two thirds (or three fifths?) of Australians have asthma.

 

[GreyAndWhiteCat]

It may not be a official campaign, as it seems you are requesting LordBest. But when I talk with people about cats I always try to get them to understand why the Persian should not be bred like it is today. It is totally dependant on human help. I do not think the way to get breeders to stop breeding for the unhealthy trait are to attack them violently with words, or for that matter themselves and there property physically. They are usually very aware of the health problems in their chosen breed. I think the way to get them stopped, is to educate people who are considering buying a pedigree cat, or for that matter a dog, about the chronic pain these animals usually suffer because of the human wish for a certain esthetic. When people stop requesting these breeds the breeders will hopefully naturally go out of business. And is no excuse to say that we humans have bred them like this for many hundreds of years for dogs and for about 150 years for cats. We humans know better today, and we should follow that knowledge.

 

[scotrace]

Please keep in mind that the political discussion ban is global.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We saw a short documentary on how "they" now believe the transition from wolf to dog only took tens of years instead of hundreds or more. One section showed drawings/plates of what was considered a bulldog in the 1800 (quite the variety) and today's bulldog (rather sad what has been done to it in search of "perfection"). Very different looking dogs indeed.

I remember seeing a documentary where they took 10 pairs of foxes and separated them from their wild pack. After just 6 generations, certain recessive traits (like patches of white hair and spotted coats) began to be dominant in the families. 6 generations, what is that, < 3 years?

would you girls please be able to provied some more info on theses shows, please? i would find that highly interesting.

thanx!!!
Charlie

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There are "overbred" bulldogs, poodles, beagles and whippets.

i have never heard of an overbread stetson. please elabourate...

 

[Lady Day]

would you girls please be able to provied some more info on theses shows, please? i would find that highly interesting.

thanx!!!
Charlie

Nova: Dogs and more Dogs It has been years since Id seen it. May look into watching it again

LD

 

[MEDIUMMYND]

The BBC do not drop popular programmes for no reason and more importantly Pedigree petfoods do not withdraw their support for no reasons.As with circus"s the freak show has to stop

 

[just_me]

The BBC do not drop popular programmes for no reason and more importantly Pedigree petfoods do not withdraw their support for no reasons.As with circus"s the freak show has to stop

I know I'm taking this off topic, but I see you're from S. Shropshire. I can't help thinking of the Importance of Being Ernest whenever I hear the name Shropshire. lol

Back to your regular scheduled programming -dogs. I've know several English bulldogs that had no problems breathing or running.

 

[Josephine]

would you girls please be able to provied some more info on theses shows, please? i would find that highly interesting.

thanx!!!
Charlie

I cannot for the life of me remember the channel I saw the show on, I thought it was the Discovery Channel or Animal Planet, however I can't find anyy record of it on their sites. I did find this on the wiki Dog page:

The Soviets have attempted to domesticate the fox, mentioned in the article Tame Silver Fox, and were able to do so in just nine generations, or less than a human lifetime. This also resulted in other changes, including color, which became black, white, or black and white. They also developed year-round breeding ability, curled-up tails, and droopy ears.

The rapidity of this change has suggested to researchers a scenario of the origin of the domestic dog. Primitive people lived on the edge of survival which involved occasional food shortages, and would not have taken wolf pups and made pets of them. However, wolves would raid garbage dumps near human habitations. Wolves have a flight distance which they keep between themselves and a threatening creature. When a dump was approached by humans, some wolves would run a greater distance from the dump than others. Those that ran the shortest distance would return first, and obtain the greatest amount of food.

This set up a selective breeding situation that resulted in a strain of wolves having shorter and shorter flight distances, until they were eventually comfortable near humans, having domesticated themselves, so to speak. At that point, they were tolerated by humans, so long as they were also useful, in such ways as catching rats or driving away other predators. In time, other uses, such as hunting, were found for them. The Farm Fox Experiment & Evolution of Dogs

 

[Bruce Wayne]

thanx girls!!!
thanx!!!
Charlie

 

[MEDIUMMYND]

I know I'm taking this off topic, but I see you're from S. Shropshire. I can't help thinking of the Importance of Being Ernest whenever I hear the name Shropshire. lol

I don"t play accurately-any one can play accurately-but i play with wonderful expression.
.

 

[DBLIII]

As I sit here while my Jack Russell continually brings me toys to toss in the air for her, while our German Shephard is asleep next to my wife - and I hear my Boston Terriers snoring in the next room - and after over 20 years of breeding Rhodesian Ridgebacks, I think that variety is good and something I appreciate. I can't comment on those who would kill or get rid of dogs that don't meet whatever artificial standards someone has condoned as the "breed standard."
Through the different breeds we have had here, if a dog didn't meet the "standard," then he or she didn't get sold, he or she just got to stay here. Makes for a giant dog food bill, but also we have the personal enjoyment of all our babies.
I still think that rather than ban some show (especially banning to me one of the ultimate symbols of Britian's toughness, the bulldog), why not do some shows on what's wrong with modern dog breeding practices? Educate rather than turn off.
My 2 cents and a couple dog biscuits.....

 

[Smithy]

I'm pleased the Beeb has done this. I was in Europe when the doco was shown and read the accompanying article in The Times about it and was disgusted. They had a photo of a boxer skull which was horrific with a ridiculously enormous underbite.

The Kennel Club needs to pull its finger out and do more to stop these breeding practices which place undue emphasis on overdone physiological features to the detriment of a breed's health. Nobody I think is trying to ban Crufts or pedigree breeds, just some of the unscrupulous breeding methods which are employed by some.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

The BBC do not drop popular programmes for no reason and more importantly Pedigree petfoods do not withdraw their support for no reasons.As with circus"s the freak show has to stop

You also don't like circuses? Or just circus dogs?

 

[MEDIUMMYND]

Its the freak show side of it i object to.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Its the freak show side of it i object to.

I've always found the freak shows interesting. Apparently others find them interesting as well, or there would not be freak shows.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

I cannot for the life of me remember the channel I saw the show on, I thought it was the Discovery Channel or Animal Planet, however I can't find anyy record of it on their sites. I did find this on the wiki Dog page:

The Soviets have attempted to domesticate the fox, mentioned in the article Tame Silver Fox, and were able to do so in just nine generations, or less than a human lifetime. This also resulted in other changes, including color, which became black, white, or black and white. They also developed year-round breeding ability, curled-up tails, and droopy ears.

The rapidity of this change has suggested to researchers a scenario of the origin of the domestic dog. Primitive people lived on the edge of survival which involved occasional food shortages, and would not have taken wolf pups and made pets of them. However, wolves would raid garbage dumps near human habitations. Wolves have a flight distance which they keep between themselves and a threatening creature. When a dump was approached by humans, some wolves would run a greater distance from the dump than others. Those that ran the shortest distance would return first, and obtain the greatest amount of food.

This set up a selective breeding situation that resulted in a strain of wolves having shorter and shorter flight distances, until they were eventually comfortable near humans, having domesticated themselves, so to speak. At that point, they were tolerated by humans, so long as they were also useful, in such ways as catching rats or driving away other predators. In time, other uses, such as hunting, were found for them. The Farm Fox Experiment & Evolution of Dogs

You realize, of course, that the description of how dogs evolved from wolves is complete and utter speculation, materialized out of thin air.

I prefer this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2498669.stm