Harp
I'll Lock Up
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- 8,508
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Interesting film. Thanks.
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BATTLE OF BRITAIN (1940) - Respecting THE FEW.
- Thread starter MDFrench
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Feraud
Bartender
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- 17,188
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- Hardlucksville, NY
What an amazing piece of video. Thanks for sharing it.
Tony in Tarzana
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- Baldwin Park California USA
Thanks! One wonders where all those machine gun bullets ended up from those dogfights over populated areas, not to mention shot-down airplanes and parts.
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CharlieH.
One Too Many
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Wow! So that's what a dogfight looks like from the ground. Thanks for posting it!
Tony in Tarzana said:
For children who had not been evacuated north, collecting old shell cases and bits of shrapnel was all the rage. The south east of England which became known to RAF pilots as "Hell's Corner" during the Battle was littered with aircraft wreckage, not an unusual sight at all in 1940.
I'm pleased you enjoyed the footage as much as I do.
Here's another little piece of memorabilia from that summer of 1940, it is the Richmond Golf Club's rules amended for the times!
CharlieH.
One Too Many
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Smithy said:
My god, this makes it seem as if these folks would keep playing in the middle of a blitz! Penalty stroke if a bomb distracts you!
Tony in Tarzana
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Smithy said:
What a wonderfully subtle example of British understatement and of the famous "Stiff upper lip." It only reinforces my great respect for those who lived in those trying times.
Good show!
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- 7,425
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- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
Marvellous footage.
Just watched it and found it fascinating. Thanks for the heads up on that one, really enjoyed it!
Just watched it and found it fascinating. Thanks for the heads up on that one, really enjoyed it!
Twitch
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Great stuff. Too bad we can't tell who was who. BTW-In the 1967 movie Battle of Britain General Galland actually flew one of Spanish-built Messerschmitt 109s for the film.
Tony as for the expended ordnance, recently on Mythbusters they finally proved that projectiles fired straight up will fall at a given rate once their energy is expended and it is not enough to kill. An angle trajectory could still be lethal however. Once a .303 caliber or 7.92mm bullet that didn't find its target in the air lost kenetic energy it would have fallen straight down without lethal results. Any fight at very low altitudes of course could unleash flatter trajectory ordnance upon the citizens.
Bet there's tens of thousands of expended rounds in the ground in Europe though.
Tony as for the expended ordnance, recently on Mythbusters they finally proved that projectiles fired straight up will fall at a given rate once their energy is expended and it is not enough to kill. An angle trajectory could still be lethal however. Once a .303 caliber or 7.92mm bullet that didn't find its target in the air lost kenetic energy it would have fallen straight down without lethal results. Any fight at very low altitudes of course could unleash flatter trajectory ordnance upon the citizens.
Bet there's tens of thousands of expended rounds in the ground in Europe though.
Twitch said:
Millions I'd wager, what with all that shooting going on
On another note I've never been entirely convinced by Bungay's assertion that the aircraft in the footage which is heading for home at low level is a Spitfire. Wing shape looks far more like a Hurricane to me. I might be splitting straws but I'm fairly certain.
moustache
Practically Family
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Great stuff!!!Thanks.I have quite a bit of colour WWII footage but am lacking that one.
I appreciate his comment that today we are so used to contrails that it is no big deal.But figure in 1940 aircraft producing such a sight had only bee around a short time.ANY footage from that time period is valuable.
JD
I appreciate his comment that today we are so used to contrails that it is no big deal.But figure in 1940 aircraft producing such a sight had only bee around a short time.ANY footage from that time period is valuable.
JD
Twitch
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I'd say it is a Spit due to the wing position seemingly more forward than the Hurri. also they appear wider in the film. But.....?
Twitch said:
I'll have to disagree there Twitch. Proportionally the wing positioning in relation to the fuselage is not wholly different between the Hurricane I and the Spitfire I. If anything the distance between wing leading edge and spinner is shorter on the Hurri than the Spit.
To be honest the quality of the film is not fantastic but to my mind if the aircraft is a Spit then from that angle the elliptical wing should be more apparent and to my eyes the wing shape looks too squared off to be a Spit. The dihedral does like a Spitfire but then the angle the footage if shot at will accentuate the accuteness of the angle.
Saying that whether it's a Spitfire or a Hurricane, the whole thing is a brilliant piece of film history and we're lucky that someone had the presence of mind to document it.
Apologies to all for the aircraft dissection, just a bit of an interest of mine, all things Battle of Britain!
Spitfire
I'll Lock Up
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Amazing, Smithy! :eusa_clap And don't appologize. Isn't it what this forum is all about - getting vintage things right?
I'll say the thought struck me too, when I first saw the film. "Hey, that's not a Spit" Just could not - like you - put my finger on, what was wrong.
Even found some shots from Duxford with Spits in low flight trying to compare. But it proved they were all lower than this guy.
But I am with you on this. It's not a Spit - but a Hurricane.
Guesse it's the same old (unfair) story: Everybody believes the Spit won the Battle of Britain. So every british plane in the air back then, MUST be a Spitfire!
I'll say the thought struck me too, when I first saw the film. "Hey, that's not a Spit" Just could not - like you - put my finger on, what was wrong.
Even found some shots from Duxford with Spits in low flight trying to compare. But it proved they were all lower than this guy.
But I am with you on this. It's not a Spit - but a Hurricane.
Guesse it's the same old (unfair) story: Everybody believes the Spit won the Battle of Britain. So every british plane in the air back then, MUST be a Spitfire!
Twitch
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I only mention a Spit due to the "appearance" from that angle that they "seem" wider than the Hurri's but the Hurricane's were fairly wide as well. The horizontal stabilizer looks larger than the Spitfire's though too going toward the Hurricane. It's not a 109 for sure!
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
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- 1,500
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Crashed planes
Growing up in the UK in the 1950s and spending a lot of time hiking in the Peak District as a boy, it seems amazing in retrospect how many crashed aircraft there were to be found on the moors. Looking back, it is sad to think of the men who died in these incidents, but at the time with the callowness and callousness of youth we didn't regard them as anything other than exciting artefacts to examine. It was those wrecks that inspired me to a lifelong interest in military aviation history.
Although no BoB action took place in the area where I lived, there were many wrecks, RAF Luftwaffe and USAAF. I can remember particularly Lancaster KB993 of 408 Squadron RCAF and RB-29A Superfortress 44-61999 'Overexposed' of the 91st Photo. Recon. Wing (which had previously been involved in the Bikini Atoll A-Bomb tests, both lying on the hills east of Glossop. The remains of P-38J Lightning 42-67207 of 554 Fighter Training Squadron were also to be found on a hill to the north of the town. The airfames of some of these wrecks were substantially intact until the 1960s, although the internal equipment had usually been salvaged, probably soon after the crashes.
The wreckage of B-24H Liberator 42-94841 was also to be found on the moors between Glossop and Hayfield, although an intense fire had consumed almost everything but the undercarriage. As far as I know, there were no survivors of any of these wrecks. I have visited these sites regularly over the years, and it is sad that trophy hunters have removed most of the wreckage. Little now remains of any of them.
Alan
Tony in Tarzana said:
Growing up in the UK in the 1950s and spending a lot of time hiking in the Peak District as a boy, it seems amazing in retrospect how many crashed aircraft there were to be found on the moors. Looking back, it is sad to think of the men who died in these incidents, but at the time with the callowness and callousness of youth we didn't regard them as anything other than exciting artefacts to examine. It was those wrecks that inspired me to a lifelong interest in military aviation history.
Although no BoB action took place in the area where I lived, there were many wrecks, RAF Luftwaffe and USAAF. I can remember particularly Lancaster KB993 of 408 Squadron RCAF and RB-29A Superfortress 44-61999 'Overexposed' of the 91st Photo. Recon. Wing (which had previously been involved in the Bikini Atoll A-Bomb tests, both lying on the hills east of Glossop. The remains of P-38J Lightning 42-67207 of 554 Fighter Training Squadron were also to be found on a hill to the north of the town. The airfames of some of these wrecks were substantially intact until the 1960s, although the internal equipment had usually been salvaged, probably soon after the crashes.
The wreckage of B-24H Liberator 42-94841 was also to be found on the moors between Glossop and Hayfield, although an intense fire had consumed almost everything but the undercarriage. As far as I know, there were no survivors of any of these wrecks. I have visited these sites regularly over the years, and it is sad that trophy hunters have removed most of the wreckage. Little now remains of any of them.
Alan
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